Please help with topper , wool or foam?
Dec 22, 2010 9:11 AM
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
Points: 12
Hi,

  I have a 4 inch memory foam that I got at overstock about 8 years ago, it has I believe, broken down. It rips easy now and there is a big depression in the center where I sleep that no longer will recover. My lower back is complaining again and I am no longer getting a good sleep. I also have a bad rotator cuff from a recent accident that hurts more if I sleep without the memory foam. I have a gold bond extra firm mattress as a base for the topper that is less than a year old.

   I have been looking at the following products:

Aerus Natural 4.0 lb. Plush 2.5” Memory Foam 2.5 inch I saw at samsclub

a wool topper that has 8.33 lbs of wool  from naturaworld

also debating a latex topper.

 

I was looking at the wool topper as I perspire alot at night, maybe due to the heat of the memory foam or just the fact that I perspire more normally than normal. I hear the wool is very good at wicking and keeping heat at reasonable levels in both winter and summer.

I was not sure if the wool topper alone would give me the needed pressure point relief that the memory foam does. I also think the foam I am currently using  is not dense enough; I think it is 2 lb.

 Reading some of this forum the aerus sounds pretty good without too much off gassing... I am not sure if my allergies are affected by the current topper or not but they may be worse with it .. so I was thinking along the lines of a better setup with less fumes. I know samsclub has the aerus and if I went with that would I need to double it up for 4+ inches ( put two of the 2.5 together?)

Would I be better off with something like a thinner wool pad and the foam?

i know this is highly subjective but would the 4 pound aerus and a wool topper give me a fairly firm feel but soft enough to relieve pressure? I am a side and stomach sleeper so I can never get perfect, I just want some setup that is softer than the extra firm base and not as soft as the 2 lb foam with some breathability.

I haven't looked into latex toppers yet, the aerus seems to be within my budget though and it claims to be free from off gassing? I have no clue here.

Thank you, Bob

This message was modified Dec 22, 2010 by BobKat
Re: Please help with topper , wool or foam?
Reply #4 Dec 24, 2010 8:48 AM
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
Points: 12
Thank you very much Pheonix,

  I found your thread on talalay vendor links for 3" and am now leaning that way.  I am making progress, and now have to look up the wool toppers here.

 

Would this be unwise to get?

http://www.naturaworld.com/topper-classic

It is not machine washable but has double the wool content as the mattress protector. Would I be better off getting a quilted pad that can be tossed in the washer?

This message was modified Dec 24, 2010 by BobKat
Re: Please help with topper , wool or foam?
Reply #5 Dec 24, 2010 1:00 PM
Joined: Dec 7, 2010
Points: 11
BobKat,

We are on a very similar quest.  I had a 3" layer of 4 lb. memory foam over a 40 ILD x 5.5" latex core.  Being about 235 lbs, I also am a side sleeper.  The memory foam was comfortable at first but after two years it no longer has any support as my shoulders are sore in the mornings.  I could have just replaced the memory foam but it was way too hot for me.  I tried to replace it with this http://mattresses.net/3-inch-latex-mattress-topper.html, but found the Dunlop latex too firm for my shoulders to get comfortable.  The great part was that it was so much cooler to sleep on than memory foam, I couldn't believe it!  I've been reading here for a while and think for me the talalay latex is the way to go and now considering this one, http://mattresses.net/3-inch-rejuvenite-talalay-latex-mattress-topper.html.  The one that Phoenix has suggested also looks like a good deal which includes shipping and appears they allow returns.   For my situation I'm just not sure if 19 ILD is soft enough or if I need something in the 14 ILD range.  I have not found anyone locally with this in inventory to test out.  I just wanted to point out that the latex really is a lot cooler to sleep on and if you can tolerate a higher density, the zoned dunlop is a good deal also.

Good Luck

Re: Please help with topper , wool or foam?
Reply #6 Dec 24, 2010 5:05 PM
Joined: Oct 3, 2010
Points: 809
Bobkat,

With your mattress, I would be looking for a foam that would allow for cradling and pressure relief, not wool at all. While wool may feel soft initially, it does not form a cradle and as it compresses it's ability to cradle and relieve pressure becomes even less. This is different than mattresses that use tufting to keep the wool "plumped up" in the mattress construction but even here they are not as inherantly pressure relieving as a material that will form a cradle and distribute weight. Once you have found the answer to pressure relief then I would consider adding a thin layer of wool on top to see if the pressure relief remains. In another thread, Leo has just completely removed her wool because even though it was thin and loose, it prevented the underlying 4" of soft latex from doing it's job well enough.

 

Cowboy,

19 ILD is pretty soft and I would suspect at your weight may be a little better than 14 but personal experience always trumps theory. Where do you live and I'll see if there is anything in my list that could give you some decent "field testing".

 

General,

The sleep warehouse latex green Dunlop is a prime example of how a small error in a websites listing could cause major long lasting problems. They have their soft latex green Dunlop topper listed as 16-18 ILD. This is not the case. It is around 30 and possibly higher. The mistake originates on the latex green website because they are using KGF which means Kilograms of force. A kilogram is about 2.2 lbs so 16 kg would be over 35 ILD (ILD is measured in lbs). Some of the European and Asian websites also use a larger compression percentage (ILD compresses a material 25%) so this may not be directly "translateable" but it would be much higher than an ILD equivalent.

This could very easily cause someone to buy it on the assumption that it was "soft" and roughly equivalent to 16-18 talalay or even 24 ILD talalay (it would be much firmer than both) and when it wasn't they would come to believe that there is "no such thing" as latex that is soft enough for them and start an "endless round" of testing materials based on an incorrect assumption.

Re: Please help with topper , wool or foam?
Reply #7 Dec 24, 2010 8:13 PM
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
Points: 12
Ok I will get just the topper for now and see how it goes and worry about wool later. THat is a good idea

 

Another question, My old memory foam came from overstock .. the one I assume is around a 2 lb above .. how does that compare in firmness to the rejuvenite 19 ILD talalay latex . Is the latex maybe twice as firm?  I am thinking now the 19 latex is the one for me or would the more firm version be better. Do you know of any field testing places  in central connecticut?

Again TYVM for all the help I really appreciate it and ty cowboy

This message was modified Dec 24, 2010 by BobKat
Re: Please help with topper , wool or foam?
Reply #8 Dec 24, 2010 8:37 PM
Joined: Oct 3, 2010
Points: 809
It is really difficult to compare memory foam with latex in terms of firmness. The feel of latex comes from it's ILD (how much weight it takes to compress the top 25% of a layer) and it's "sag factor" (how much weight it takes to compress it to 65%). The feel of memory foam comes from it's ILD (usually in the range of 10-16) and the temperature (which lowers it's ILD as it turns more into a "liquid" that flows instead of compresses). Often memory foam will feel much "firmer" than it's ILD indicates when it is cooler. The closest "approximation" between memory foam and latex would be super soft latex of around 114 ILD but this is only an approximation as they act much differently when you sleep on them. Latex also offers much more support in all ILD's than memory foam which has very little in any "version".

How soft something feels is often a function of how well they conform to your body shape and distribute pressure and memory foam and latex do this in different ways. Memory foam does this by turning into a "liquid like" state with heat and pressure and latex does this through "point elasticity" (the ability of a very small area to compress without affecting the surrounding area). Soft and very soft latex is very similar to memory foam in it's ability to "form a cradle" and feel soft. Some say latex is better ... some say memory foam is better. It would depend on the person, the ILD of the latex, and the chemicals used in the specific type of memory foam in it's manufacture. If memory foam is over a firmer layer and someone sinks through it over the course of the night as it heats up, then it will even feel much firmer than soft latex as they would be feeling the "support layers" under the memory foam. Like the difference between honey and water, denser memory foam doesn't always feel firmer than less dense and can even feel softer.

Will look for outlets in Central Conneticut and post them here as a PS but I know there are a few as Conneticut is where LI is situated.

Phoenix

This message was modified Dec 24, 2010 by Phoenix
Re: Please help with topper , wool or foam?
Reply #9 Dec 24, 2010 9:05 PM
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
Points: 12
I found the info on what I have now but doesn't tell what brand it is. I was mistaken as it's only a 3 inch

http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/Memory-Foam-3-inch-Mattress-Topper/884135/product.html

This message was modified Dec 24, 2010 by BobKat
Re: Please help with topper , wool or foam?
Reply #10 Dec 24, 2010 9:15 PM
Joined: Oct 3, 2010
Points: 809
Here are a few in Conneticut but I will leave you to determine which (if any) are near enough to you. A few of these are among the best value latex mattresses in the US IMO.

http://www.thecleanbedroom.com/Showrooms.htm Retailer. Have a wide range of latex mattresses including layered make your own versions that would be a good testing ground.

http://www.allyouneedforsleep.com/index.htm Retailer. Carry Restopedic mattresses which are great value and would also be good testing grounds

http://www.manta.com/c/mmjfn7g/restopedic-inc Manufacturer. These are the actual manufacturer of Restopedic and sell factory direct. Don't have a website but they do have great value. Was impressed when I talked with them.

http://www.norwalkmattress.com/ Manufacturer. Also manufactures a range of latex mattresses

http://www.columbiamattressuph.com/findcmu.html Manufacturer. Their website says they have latex but I don't know any details about whether they make all latex or not.

http://www.comfortss.com/location.html Manufacturer. Makes a range of latex mattresses.

http://www.mybobs.com/locations/ Retailer/manufacturer? Focuses on memory foam but including them for the sake of completeness in case someone else looking for memory foam sees this list.

http://www.customsleepdesign.com/ Manufacturer. Makes custom layered and zoned latex mattresses using an approach that I believe is very accurate. Was also impressed when I talked with him and he is a former VP of latex international.

All of the latex manufacturers in this list may very well sell you a topper at a very good price should you need one. They would certainly provide excellent testing grounds. Conneticut doesn't have as many manufacturers as other states but they are among the best.

If there are stores like Sleepy's near you, then the Pure Latex Bliss line of mattresses would also be excellent testing grounds. They are a "subsidiary" of Latex International and while they are more than the manufacturers listed here, their mattresses and toppers do give you a chance to test out different comfort layers and thicknesses.

Phoenix

PS: based on the overstock description it is probably chinese memory foam. They say "rated at" 4 lb which usually means absolutely nothing and usually means it actually isn't 4lb. Without knowing who manufactures the memory foam there is no way to tell how it will "act" in actual use or what it really is. The 2 year warranty also indicates that it is probably "lesser" memory foam as well.

This message was modified Dec 24, 2010 by Phoenix
Re: Please help with topper , wool or foam?
Reply #11 Dec 24, 2010 9:39 PM
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
Points: 12
Thanks for the fast reply and all the wonderful help. I will check around and test one out next week. 

According to the link cowboy gave the video on the rejuvenite that the seller has says that they are manufactured by international latex in their connecticut factory under the rejuvenite name.

Re: Please help with topper , wool or foam?
Reply #12 Dec 24, 2010 9:45 PM
Joined: Oct 3, 2010
Points: 809
Yes. Rejuvenite is a Latex International brand and comes directly from them. The Pure Latex Bliss line of mattresses is also a "LI subsidiary" and they have a latex topper that is 14 ILD. Pure latex bliss is fairly widely available at places like Sleepys and other mass merchandisers. They are a great testing ground for soft latex layering and thicknesses.

Phoenix

Re: Please help with topper , wool or foam?
Reply #13 Dec 31, 2010 10:41 AM
Joined: Dec 22, 2010
Points: 12
I tried out the latex bliss at sleepys. They had a soft and a firmer one there but no way to know what the ild was on them. The soft was really soft. I liked both the soft and firmer one there and now it is going to be a tough choice which I want ... the rejuvenite 19 or 28.

  I am still leaning toward the soft  I think at 19 ild with the rejuvenite since I am a side sleeper

This site claims the ild in the 20's is better ?  http://www.plushbeds.com/latexmattress.html

 

I think I'll have to go try the latex bliss again.

This message was modified Dec 31, 2010 by BobKat

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