Mattress Forum

A softer latex topper could very well feel as soft as memory foam for you depending on how far you sank in. You are probably sinking right through the memory foam and feeling the firm mattress underneath. The ability of latex to relieve pressure is similar to memory foam but the difference in support is much larger. You would tend to "hammock" much less with softer latex since it will "stop the sinking" and "push back" more than memory foam. Even poly will do the same although usually to a lesser extent than latex.

In my personal experience (and everyone is different here) I tend to like sleeping on wool as it is breathable and I believe it is a healthy sleep surface. The tradeoff is that it may "firm up" whatever soft layer is underneath it (it compresses and doesn't have the elasticity of most foams) and by itself does not form a "conforming cradle" and relieve pressure issues. There is also a fairly big difference in different wool toppers in terms of how much wool is in them and how "compressed" and/or firm they may become with use. A lot of people really like it over a layer of memory foam to help offset the heat. It would also be good over latex but not as necessary for heat reasons as latex is cooler than memory foam. The Dormier has been quite popular on this forum because it is thinner and seems to be a little more flexible according to those who have used both this and the Natura. The natura is also popular although they make several which are all different in terms of how much wool they use. Budgy is very knowledgeable on Natura products (and many others) as he is familiar with pretty much all of them and how they compare to other brands and the dormier as well. Sandman also has a lot of personal experience in using different memory foams in different layering schemes.

The "coolest" mattress of them all is one that has no foam at all such as some of the higher end mattresses that use natural cotton/wool/horsehair/silk etc stuffing materials over innersprings. All foams are a "little" hotter than these materials since you sink into them more and they are not quite as breathable as natural fibers but for most people that have "heat issues" it is related to memory foam.

There is no way to predict exactly how you will react to different thicknesses and ILD's (or density in the case of memory foam) without having personal experience from laying on mattresses with a known construction as a reference point. This is especially true if you are considering a material that you have never or rarely slept on before. The variations beween weight distribution and personal preference is so wide that only your own personal experiences that come from laying on mattresses where you know the ILD and thickness of the top 2-4" can really help in "narrowing down" the "best" thickness and the "best softness" for you.

In very general terms (using "average" preferences if there is such a thing) I would use the firmest and thinnest layer that your hips are comfortable with. This could very well be in the range of 20 ILD or so and about 3" (similar to the Rejuvenate soft body pillow) but again I have to stress than your experience is more important than any theory I may have.

Sleep warehouse is a good source for toppers as they have high quality Dunlop Latex (latex green) and also quality memory foam (Foamex) and good quality poly (also Foamex) but they don't carry Talalay if your choice is in that direction. It always pays as well once you decide exactly what you plan to order to compare prices between the same or similar materials from 2 or 3 places that are known to give good value.

Phoenix

  I found your thread on talalay vendor links for 3" and am now leaning that way.  I am making progress, and now have to look up the wool toppers here.

Would this be unwise to get?

http://www.naturaworld.com/topper-classic

It is not machine washable but has double the wool content as the mattress protector. Would I be better off getting a quilted pad that can be tossed in the washer?

We are on a very similar quest.  I had a 3" layer of 4 lb. memory foam over a 40 ILD x 5.5" latex core.  Being about 235 lbs, I also am a side sleeper.  The memory foam was comfortable at first but after two years it no longer has any support as my shoulders are sore in the mornings.  I could have just replaced the memory foam but it was way too hot for me.  I tried to replace it with this http://mattresses.net/3-inch-latex-mattress-topper.html, but found the Dunlop latex too firm for my shoulders to get comfortable.  The great part was that it was so much cooler to sleep on than memory foam, I couldn't believe it!  I've been reading here for a while and think for me the talalay latex is the way to go and now considering this one, http://mattresses.net/3-inch-rejuvenite-talalay-latex-mattress-topper.html.  The one that Phoenix has suggested also looks like a good deal which includes shipping and appears they allow returns.   For my situation I'm just not sure if 19 ILD is soft enough or if I need something in the 14 ILD range.  I have not found anyone locally with this in inventory to test out.  I just wanted to point out that the latex really is a lot cooler to sleep on and if you can tolerate a higher density, the zoned dunlop is a good deal also.

Good Luck

With your mattress, I would be looking for a foam that would allow for cradling and pressure relief, not wool at all. While wool may feel soft initially, it does not form a cradle and as it compresses it's ability to cradle and relieve pressure becomes even less. This is different than mattresses that use tufting to keep the wool "plumped up" in the mattress construction but even here they are not as inherantly pressure relieving as a material that will form a cradle and distribute weight. Once you have found the answer to pressure relief then I would consider adding a thin layer of wool on top to see if the pressure relief remains. In another thread, Leo has just completely removed her wool because even though it was thin and loose, it prevented the underlying 4" of soft latex from doing it's job well enough.

Cowboy,

19 ILD is pretty soft and I would suspect at your weight may be a little better than 14 but personal experience always trumps theory. Where do you live and I'll see if there is anything in my list that could give you some decent "field testing".

General,

The sleep warehouse latex green Dunlop is a prime example of how a small error in a websites listing could cause major long lasting problems. They have their soft latex green Dunlop topper listed as 16-18 ILD. This is not the case. It is around 30 and possibly higher. The mistake originates on the latex green website because they are using KGF which means Kilograms of force. A kilogram is about 2.2 lbs so 16 kg would be over 35 ILD (ILD is measured in lbs). Some of the European and Asian websites also use a larger compression percentage (ILD compresses a material 25%) so this may not be directly "translateable" but it would be much higher than an ILD equivalent.

This could very easily cause someone to buy it on the assumption that it was "soft" and roughly equivalent to 16-18 talalay or even 24 ILD talalay (it would be much firmer than both) and when it wasn't they would come to believe that there is "no such thing" as latex that is soft enough for them and start an "endless round" of testing materials based on an incorrect assumption.

Another question, My old memory foam came from overstock .. the one I assume is around a 2 lb above .. how does that compare in firmness to the rejuvenite 19 ILD talalay latex . Is the latex maybe twice as firm?  I am thinking now the 19 latex is the one for me or would the more firm version be better. Do you know of any field testing places  in central connecticut?

Again TYVM for all the help I really appreciate it and ty cowboy

How soft something feels is often a function of how well they conform to your body shape and distribute pressure and memory foam and latex do this in different ways. Memory foam does this by turning into a "liquid like" state with heat and pressure and latex does this through "point elasticity" (the ability of a very small area to compress without affecting the surrounding area). Soft and very soft latex is very similar to memory foam in it's ability to "form a cradle" and feel soft. Some say latex is better ... some say memory foam is better. It would depend on the person, the ILD of the latex, and the chemicals used in the specific type of memory foam in it's manufacture. If memory foam is over a firmer layer and someone sinks through it over the course of the night as it heats up, then it will even feel much firmer than soft latex as they would be feeling the "support layers" under the memory foam. Like the difference between honey and water, denser memory foam doesn't always feel firmer than less dense and can even feel softer.

Will look for outlets in Central Conneticut and post them here as a PS but I know there are a few as Conneticut is where LI is situated.

Phoenix

http://www.overstock.com/Home-Garden/Memory-Foam-3-inch-Mattress-Topper/884135/product.html

http://www.thecleanbedroom.com/Showrooms.htm Retailer. Have a wide range of latex mattresses including layered make your own versions that would be a good testing ground.

http://www.allyouneedforsleep.com/index.htm Retailer. Carry Restopedic mattresses which are great value and would also be good testing grounds

http://www.manta.com/c/mmjfn7g/restopedic-inc Manufacturer. These are the actual manufacturer of Restopedic and sell factory direct. Don't have a website but they do have great value. Was impressed when I talked with them.

http://www.norwalkmattress.com/ Manufacturer. Also manufactures a range of latex mattresses

http://www.columbiamattressuph.com/findcmu.html Manufacturer. Their website says they have latex but I don't know any details about whether they make all latex or not.

http://www.comfortss.com/location.html Manufacturer. Makes a range of latex mattresses.

http://www.mybobs.com/locations/ Retailer/manufacturer? Focuses on memory foam but including them for the sake of completeness in case someone else looking for memory foam sees this list.

http://www.customsleepdesign.com/ Manufacturer. Makes custom layered and zoned latex mattresses using an approach that I believe is very accurate. Was also impressed when I talked with him and he is a former VP of latex international.

All of the latex manufacturers in this list may very well sell you a topper at a very good price should you need one. They would certainly provide excellent testing grounds. Conneticut doesn't have as many manufacturers as other states but they are among the best.

If there are stores like Sleepy's near you, then the Pure Latex Bliss line of mattresses would also be excellent testing grounds. They are a "subsidiary" of Latex International and while they are more than the manufacturers listed here, their mattresses and toppers do give you a chance to test out different comfort layers and thicknesses.

Phoenix

PS: based on the overstock description it is probably chinese memory foam. They say "rated at" 4 lb which usually means absolutely nothing and usually means it actually isn't 4lb. Without knowing who manufactures the memory foam there is no way to tell how it will "act" in actual use or what it really is. The 2 year warranty also indicates that it is probably "lesser" memory foam as well.

According to the link cowboy gave the video on the rejuvenite that the seller has says that they are manufactured by international latex in their connecticut factory under the rejuvenite name.

Phoenix