A year and half ago my wife and i bought a Denver Durango Mattress (firm) that has not offered the support I needed. I have a bad back--lower disc degeneration and chronic back tension. So we bought a Sleep Better 2" extra firm foam mattress topper on Amazon a year ago and that did the trick for a month or two. Now I am waking up evernight feeling like I've been beaten by sock with a roll of quarters in it. My wife too. Basically, there are two hole where my wife and I sleep in the foam. I am about 220 lbs.
I just came from vacation and slept on many different beds (including a cot in a dorm room), all of which gave me a decent night sleep! ACK!
Anyway, my instinct is to just buy a thicker topper; the same product but 5" thick. But I have a couple concerns:
1. Allergies: We both have them and something hypoallergenic would be great.
2. Temperature: by most accounts, the foam affects sleeping temperature.
Mostly, I am not sure what the right product is for me. I have narrowed it down latex toppers, the foam, and memory foam--is there another product I am missing? If I understand right, given my bed already doesn't provide enough support, I am thinking memory foam is maybe not the best idea. Does that sounds right? Is latex firm enough?
I'd love any advice or pointed to specific products would be great. I think $300 is the max of our budget, but will take a serious look at anything.
Also, I am open to MATTRESS VOODOO, so if there is some combination for products--from plywood to banana peals--that would suggest, I'd be very open.
GK, Thanks. My problem right now is figuring out the exact problem. As you stated so well, the real question is what is the current situation of my mattress? And my problem is, I don't know how to tell. I suppose laying on it rolling around should tell me if the there are deep impressions. I am 220lbs (6ft) and my wife is about 130lbs, (5,3") so I am guessing definately some, certainly on my side (though we rotate the mattress).
So these are my questions, and I hope you (or others who know) might be willing to help more:
1) Besides what I stated above, is there a way to evaluate how solid and flat your core is?
2) Since you seem to understand this stuff, do the specs above assert that the core is basically good (seperate from the foam; or does the foam interfer too much for it matter?)?
3) Can you direct me someplace that might explain what you mean by "mattress surgery?"
4) Does my plan from my previous post sound like a good new start? Go buy a cheap $150-200 firm mattress to act as my firm, flat support and then add a latex topper?
5) If not, can you suggest another direction?
My wife thinks we should call Denver Mattress and just tell them what is up and see what they say. With the mattress being three years old, I think what they will say is, "Come buy a new mattress?" But maybe not.
Again, THANKS SO MUCH! it's a shame this stuff gets so complicated. I should mention we're redoing our bedroom, and so we've been sleeping a ten year old queen. A serta, which is bowing inwarn in the middle. But we have been sleeping SO well. Despite the bow, it is still firm and even.
Dear Wordfinder.. it amazes me how technical everyone wants to get with mattresses these days.. You are making it more complicated than it is.. there is NO bed our there that for 150-200 dollars that is even worth your time and effort to get it in your house worth a hill of beans.. and to buy a topper for it.. give it up already.. today a 900 dollar mattress is actually a cheap find.. you may luck out and get one that holds up for a year or two, but believe me the quality of things today do not stand the test of time.. Cut your losses and start a new search for a mattress to suit your needs and make sure you have really strong box springs that have support under them or you will destroy the mattress above each and every night you sleep on it. I wish you sweet dreams .. .>>> eventually..
>>1) Besides what I stated above, is there a way to evaluate how solid and flat your core is?
From what you have posted, the core is individual coils wrapped in foam. That construction probably relies on the foundation below for support and flatness. And individual coils can tend to push back at you individually... sort of like each coil beating you like a roll of quarters as you move about. This is all covered by lots of soft foam, which is proably not offering much comfort or isolation. All in all, not a system worth building on, imo.
>>2) Since you seem to understand this stuff, do the specs above assert that the core is basically good (seperate from the foam; or does the foam interfer too much for it matter?)?
Core construction is not good, imo. I'm envisioning a foam sack full of loose coils.
>>3) Can you direct me someplace that might explain what you mean by "mattress surgery?"
Search this website. If you have a good innerspring mattress but the surface comfort layer has failed, you might consider replacing the failed comfort layer to save some money. But your mattress does not seem to be a good candidate for such DIY salvation.
>>4) Does my plan from my previous post sound like a good new start? Go buy a cheap $150-200 firm mattress to act as my firm, flat support and then add a latex topper?
That could be a viable plan... buy a firm, mostly core innerspring mattress and tune the comfort layer with a Latex topper. But I would expect to pay more for quality components.
>>5) If not, can you suggest another direction?
This forum often recommends finding a local mattress maker who has been around awhile and who is still building decent, functional bed systems without the pop nonsense like huge pillowtops made of short lasting foam.
>>My wife thinks we should call Denver Mattress and just tell them what is up and see what they say. With the mattress being three years old, I think what they will say is, "Come buy a new mattress?" But maybe not.
A call might reach someone willing to share good advice... perhaps acknowledge that your current mattress is not worth saving.
>>Again, THANKS SO MUCH! it's a shame this stuff gets so complicated. I should mention we're redoing our bedroom, and so we've been sleeping a ten year old queen. A serta, which is bowing inwarn in the middle. But we have been sleeping SO well. Despite the bow, it is still firm and even.
Be sure it's supported below, or prop it up from below to see if you can improve it easily for near term comfort.
Again, Thanks all. I have a good understanding of what i need. It's a shame this isn't simpler, but I am glad there are people to help.
One last question, what are the baseline specs for a core innerspring mattress? I don't mind searching but I don't know exactly what to ask for, especially since so many sales people tell you what you want to hear (though I am going to try to go to a manufactuer. We have one local to Tulsa) Should the springs be a certain thickness or something?
Or better yet, if someone wants to suggest one...
either way, I am on the search. What about putting a latex topper on a futon? I am just thinking.
Anyway, i know my goal now. Find a a strong core mattress, the hell with the comfort level. Then add a comfort level.
Also, I have to convince my wife all of this makes sense and get the money together.
So much fun!
Seriously though, you guys are awesome.
|Dear Word.. the higher the coil count usually speaks volumes to the support of the mattress.. However once again the confusing industry as it is.. doesn't want the consumer to be too smart, so they throw out that statement by saying if you have more coils they will be thinner to fit them all in..(causing less support) and sometimes what they cover the coils in materials as well. hence a very frustrated consumer.. I don't doubt in the future we will not have coil beds to choose from and then talk about confusion.. there will be millions of inferior makers out there with sub-standard materials at all differnt price ranges to snag us into the purchase.. If you do end up doing a topper make it a very good latex otherwise drive down the street and throw your money out the window. First and foremost.. YOU are not a manufacturer and cannot create your own bed, well maybe you can for a few months, but then it's downhill from there.. You will be fooling with that senerio for months to come and then become so mad at the entire mattress you are sleeping on that you will hack it up in the garage.. Keep looking and laying on beds everywhere you can and make the best of what your pocketbook allows, otherwise any topper under a couple of hundred dollars is not going to do the trick..by the time you get done you may as well have purchased another bed period.. Good luck!!!|
Well, that's the point of using pocketed coils -- to have them conform to your body -- isn't it? But without the feeling of being beaten by a roll of quarters, I'd hope. (Great analogy, by the way. The pocket coils in my low-end Simmons mattress are 13 gauge, and they might be a tad too sturdy for me 'cause I'm such a lightweight.)
I'd expect the coil pockets (not the coils themselves, but the fabric pockets) to be connected to each other in some fashion, so they shouldn't be completely loose. I'm guessing that the "foam encasing" refers to a foam border around the whole mattress, not around each coil.
Wordfinder2, since you appear to be at the "nothing left to lose" stage with this mattress, I encourage you to do an exploratory surgery -- cut off the top (or cut 3 sides of it so you can fold it back) and take a look inside. Remove the crappy foam and see what's underneath. You might find that the coils are still usable and just need a few inches of latex or HR poly foam for cushioning; but even if the coils are not usable, then (a) you'll know for sure, before spending money on another mattress, and (b) you'll get a bit of hands-on education about mattress construction. I've found that there's nothing quite like seeing the innards of these beasts -- and feeling just how squishy the cheap foam is -- to make some of this stuff less abstract.
I don't have any spring advice for you other than to try and compare floor models, learn how they are constructed, and try to feel their function apart from the intervening layers. Also, it takes some time for your back and body to relax to be fully carried by the mattress. This will happen sooner on a good system your body 'trusts'. Maybe you will be able to sense this transition.
Even if you knew what springs you thought you wanted, you would likely have to moderate this expectation with what can be determined about what is available. Discover a little, put together your base 'expectation', and then don't hesitate to spot the junky dumb stuff.
As for a Latex topper, consider LI Talalay Blended in the 19-28 ILD range. How it will behave will depend on the thickness and how it interacts with the layers below. 28 tends to be 'cushion firm'. 3" of 19 would make an extra firm mattress sort of comfy. Tuning Latex is no easier than finding a mattress you like.
I would shop for a complete mattress system and only consider adding a topper if that seems like a good followup plan.
Yes, I agree that the intent of individual coils is to contour to the body, but there is more to consider than just their profile response.
Specifically, how the body's weight is distributed (pressure relief) across the coils, and in particular, across neighboring coils when some coils are carrying much heavier bearing points like shoulders and hips or butts than that of their immediate neighbor coils. How well your body weight is distributed across the individual coils depends on the layers above since the coils themselves are free to respond independantly, unlike a linked-together innerspring construct where a point load like hips tends to pull down the surrounding area.
If the layers above are not good at or otherwise fail to distribute your body weight, then the individual coils below will have a corresponding uneven and opposite force response, with some coils depressed deep under your bearing points while neighboring coils remain much less depressed and poking your body (the roll of quarters). One could argue that this is an inherent defect of individual coil springs that must be aleviated by the comfort layers above... and perhaps compromises their role as comfort layers. Contoured? Yes. Evenly distributed and regulated pressure relief? No.
Foam is much better at this... contouring with pressure relief... because the foam cells (tiny springs) are much smaller (small delta) and linked in all directions to achieve a more evenly distributed force response to body weight. Plus, foam interacts with foam below; and foam cells ultimately buckle/collapse at their overload point to further relieve pressure.
Latex foam is considered the better foam. One might argue that individual coils are a poor functional substitute for a 100% Latex foam rubber mattress.
I've read all your response with great interest, and it seems finding a complete mattress system versus a solid basic mattress followed by a topper is the way to go. Though to me it seems it could be cheaper and better to buy a sturdy, baseline, and well built mattress without all the bells and whistles and throw a good latex topper on it. But at this point, I'm willing to follow advice.
However, to be honest, laying on mattresses in stores has always been hit or miss for me. At first, they all feel good. I did research this mattress (as previously detailed) and when I laid on it at first it felt awesome. As it did for quite some time. In fact, my mattress feels good at first now, but i just wake up sore and twisted.
So, what I think I need to understand is (and maybe I should be graduating to another thread now), what components make a good bed? From what one post said, I gather 13 guage coils is minimum. The latex foam is key for the topper (with the specifications given in the post above).
I am convinced that my bed is crap, and I can just get rid of it (though the box springs feel solid and well constructed), so I am willing to spend two thousand to have a bed I can depend on for some time, you know.
Since I had good luck with this queen Serta, maybe I should look at their mattresses again. Are there are brands you guys believe in? Someone metioned Simmons. I understand that all these guys have a low-end and high-end models, does one stand out?
I remember when I researched mattresses earlier, basically these posts tore down most of the big names.
This has been such a help. Yet, I am back and stage one. Thinking of putting an ad in the paper, "Have a couple thousand to spend and simply wanting a good, dependable, well-built bed. Show me one and I'll buy you a steak."
Unfortunately, I have found that to be very true.
That is an interesting explanation; thanks.
(I went with the 13 gauge pocket coils this time around because my previous mattress, which used 14.5 gauge LuraFlex offset coils, didn't seem to give me enough support or enough contouring.)
I haven't found it to be terribly helpful, either -- most mattresses have so much foam that I can't get any idea of how well the springs will work for me or what type of springs will work best for me. (The single exception might be the Serta continuous-coil spring mattresses; those just feel like trampolines to me, and I'd rather not be bounced out of bed.)
Sorry, I'm not being much help. I commiserate with you about the difficulties of mattress buying, though.
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