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http://www.myessentia.com/research/latex-vs-memory-foam Reading the essentia website and came across this. there is more info on the link above, but here is the part that concerned me 1) Talalay Process this is not the first time I've read something about "natural latex" not being all that natural...but people who think they're buying 100% Natural Talalay are paying a premium price for what they think is a natural based product made w/no chemicals...Flobeds and SleepEz (and probably others) claim they sell "100% natural talalay"...what can we believe? Any comments or insights from the more knowledgeable folks on here? (preferably people not working for or affliated in any way with latex mattress sales...) thanks!
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Heres the way I see it...if the same process is used and the cell structure is the same....then the only difference is the properties of the materials themselves.
Here is one of the few objective and scientific comparions charts on different rubber compounds. http://www.elderrubber.com/material.htm In all the important ways, resilience, tear resistance in particular, NR vastly outperforms SBR. http://www.elderrubber.com/material1.html Here is another chart showing that NR has higher resistance to UV radiation...also note the tensile strength is highest of all rubber compounds. This message was modified May 11, 2011 by budgy
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Budgy, thanks for all the information. I want to believe that natural latex is better and longer lasting etc. than synthetic latex. I am just kind of playing "devil's advocate" here and noting that there is a controversy about it; that the S Co's are saying their product lasts longer. Also I seem to recall that either S&F or Simmons claim their Talalay (synthetic) latex is also anti-microbial and/or dust mite resistant or dust mite free. Don't quote me on that but I seem to recall reading that in my research. As someone pointed out, the main problem is that S&F etc. are charging natural latex prices for their synthetic product, so even though it's cheaper to produce (of that there is no doubt), they are not selling it cheaper. Simmons claims all their foams are made in the USA and are all low-VOC and contain no cfc's, no formaldehyde, prohibited phthalates, no heavy metals, etc. They are approved by something called CertiPUR-US. It seems like a step in the right direction. Someone told me Tempurpedic has a lot of formaldehyde. Anyone have any info on that? |
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budgy wrote:
So the scores upto now - sleepez + csd - score 2 (both tell me that they are experts and have been doing this for long time) vs Budgy 1
Oh I forgot let me add slb They said the same things that sleepez and csd said - that synthetic last smuch longer so it has a 20 year warranty vs 10 year warranty for all natural latex.
So the scorecard now is: SleepEz + csd + slb - 3 versus budgy 1
New score is then : 3-1 against budgy. |
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Thank goodness score keeping doesn't really matter....your post is about as useful as saying there are more Muslims than Hindu's in the world therefore the Muslims must be 'right'. Let's try to be objective here...all 3 of those vendors primarily sell LI latex and/or skewed towards selling LI latex. I don't really care if you believe me or not, but exactly how much relevant data did these people give you other than "trust me im an expert and blended talalay lasts longer, WAY longer"? Also note that they are saying blended talalay last's longer than natural talalay, not natural dunlop rubber. I have provided you with useful data in the links to Elderrubbers website..a true polymer specialist. Since they make just about everything themselves I would actually trust these guys to be more objective about it. Especially considering the types of applications they are providing. If you do some more searching online you can find other latex manufacturers claiming that natural rubber is more durable than synthetic. SBR is only more resistant to petroleum based oils and similar chemicals, which in a mattress is irrelevant. Look at the poster in the other thread....her latex mattress is 47 years old...its natural dunlop rubber. I suppose if blended talatech will last WAY longer then people should be able to keep these blended LI foams for much longer than 50 years but we all know thats not going to happen. If these retailers really believed it would last longer than they should back up their claims by offer longer than the 10/10 warranties that all the natural dunlop makers give as standard.
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richardp - what exactly are you looking for? A guarantee? I dont think one exists - at some point you have to decide what will work for you. If you feel better buying the blended, buy it. Whats the downside? I dont think there is much difference between the two unless you really prefer a "natural" product. As other posters have mentioned, they may not yet have enough data on natural talalay process mattresses to give the same 20yr warranty you find with blended. Your warranty may never be honored anyway, so its better just to know whats in the mattress you choose. Thanks to budgy and others on this forum we are now armed with more knowledge than most of the retailers we might buy from. |
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Also Richard, I just want to apologize if my post came across as defensive. I am not trying to make this a pissing contest about natural being better than blended or dunlop being better than talalay....its just that the onus of proof and the burden of providing technical relevant data should be on the talalay producers....in another 30 years if we see a lot of people saying they have been sleeping on a talatech latex mattress for 45 or 50 years then I would be very happy to see that as I do tell the product myself....part of my job is not giving people unrealistic expectations because I don't want people to hold me accountable if their product doesn't last as long as its purported to. |
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Okay, no offense here only learning, Wish these retailers or makers could just be honest in advertising and give us the best product and just tell the truth. some more questions: 1. What I would like to know is which talalay latex molds better to the contours of the body? Blended or natural 2. and I have been told that you can get only softer and exact ILDS in blended latex and not in All natural talalay latex. Like if you want 14 ILD which is the softest ILD then you can get that only in blended latex. I have also been told that in natual talalay latex ILDS are in range not in a exact number like 19 or 40 etc. Is this all true? Thanks. |
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From what I've learned, regardless of the process, there is no "exact" ILD , it is measured on a specific thickness of latex - thus it is different softness depending on the thickness of the layer. Sleeplikeabear has offered 100% natural ILD in N1 softness, lower than the 20 ILD readily available on their site. As far as what conforms better, that may be subjective. You'd have to try it out. I know I have laid on the 14 ILD Pure Latex Bliss toppers which are a 40/60 blend, and I cant imagine anything softer or more conforming. |
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No ILD measurements are ever 100% accurate. But it is true that with a 100% natural product there can be a variance perhaps up to a couple ILD between batches...probably hard to notice until you are on the lower ILD part of the scale...this is especially true if the supplier is not located close to the source and they might buy their hevea milk from different regions in the world depending on price at the time, for example buying half their rubber from North Africa, and when the price/time is right they buy rubber from Thailand or China. This is one true benefit of a more synthetically based latex product, it is slightly more consistent. Part of the reason you will not find Natural rubber in the really low ILD's is because the tensile strength of the material is significantly higher as well as the elasticity. Because natural rubber is more elastic, this means that in theory given the ILD's are the same, natural rubber should conform to body shape more accurately...this is one area though where there is not a lot of data. Probably personal feel is still the best way to tell because the chances of ever comparing a blended latex and natural latex mattress made the same exact way (talalay vs talalay, and exact ILD's, mattress covers, etc) is basically impossible. |
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I too am in the market for a new mattress and I find lots of contradictory information out there. A vendor who is selling X is going to tell you that X is better than Y because they are not selling Y, they are selling X! I recommend searching for independent information from sources that are not trying to sell you their product. I'm sure some of the people on this list have lots of experience selling a wide variety of mattresses and I would trust them as much as I trust what I read at buymymattressitsthebestonemade.com. I've been lurking for a few months and budgy has provided some links to independent sources of information. Personally, I want an earth and people friendly mattress, so natural latex for me. YMMV |