Soliciting feedback on Vi-Spring and Hypnos
Aug 23, 2010 3:11 PM
Joined: Aug 21, 2010
Points: 6
Hello everyone,

I am new to the forum and have been digging into the archives on my research for my next mattress.  Both my fiance and I prefer the feel of spring mattress over latex and that's what we are considering at the moment.

So far, I have learned from here is to avoid the plush/pillow tops as they tend to break down over a relatively short time.  Also, the 3 "S" brands were not what they used to be.  I have also get to learned about lesser known brands like Vi-Spring and Hypnos.  These brands seem to be mythical and have no review at all anywhere.  Are there any owners here who would like to share their thoughts?

Re: Soliciting feedback on Vi-Spring and Hypnos
Reply #11 Sep 14, 2010 7:39 PM
Joined: Aug 31, 2007
Points: 404
I came very close to buying a Hastens after trying them in a showroom for the better part of the day and loving them there.  But given I was looking at over $10,000 I decided to spend the money and fly to a city with a hotel that had one in one of their rooms.  Glad I did.  I did not sleep well.  I had to take the topper off part way through the night, my back was stiff in the morning, and I woke up congested.  The room didn't appear dusty (it was the Chicago Peninsula, no less, so doesn't get much more chic-chic than that!) so I had to assume that I was maybe sensitive to the horsehair - who knows.  All I can say is that I am glad I spent the $1000 that trip cost me to keep me from making a $10,000 mistake.  And just goes to show you that feeling comfortable in the showroom carries no guarantee on how it is going to feel for a full night.  I've also ruled out Tempurpedics and McRoskeys this way too.  Obviously, this is not a cost-effective way to check out cheaper mattresses, but when you start looking at over $5000, finding a hotel or B&B with a mattress you are interested in is worth it.
Re: Soliciting feedback on Vi-Spring and Hypnos
Reply #12 Sep 14, 2010 11:01 PM
Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Points: 850
mkyy wrote:

budgy, what do you think about the new lien of Greensleep coil mattress? 


Compared to something like a Vi-Spring or Hastens there are pro's and con's.  Realistically the only part of the Green Sleep pocket coil beds that really takes any kind of initial body indentation is the top most sheeps wool layer.  Being that a Vi-Spring or Hastens is upholstered exclusively with animal and vegetable fibres...I could see them taking more of a body set...this may or may not bug people, I imagine for the amount of coin spent on them, it does bother a myriad of people.  Natural rubber does hold its shape well.  The good thing with the Green Sleep pocket coil beds is that after say 15~25 years you can simply replace the pillowtop with a new one, the spring core and base system should more or less last a lifetime.  So its actually incredibly cost effective despite them not being cheap mattresses anyway. 

Personally I think Vi-Sping makes the best coil systems around, even better than a Hastens, I am speaking just interms of how well the coils themselves would contour to shape, not from a durability standpoint.  All 3 of these brands have remarkably durable spring systems...its the upholstery and the removable pillowtop that I believe would make a Green Sleep ultimately more durable.  Also if someone doesn't want an incredibly soft mattress a lot of people will find the Green Sleep to be just as comfortable.

The pro's to a Vi-Spring or Hastens is that they will be a notch better on the breathability side of things...hard to say how much...I would assume with no foam whatsoever they will ultimately be a slight improvement in this category however I caution that regardless of whether you buy a $5000 Green Sleep, a $7000 Vi-Spring, a $10,000 Hastens or a $30K-$50K Vispring or Hastens, every single one of these beds uses sheeps wool in the uppermost layering which is where 95% of your bodies humidity is going to be dealt with. 

Getting back to the whole rubber being natural thing....it is technically natural if the vulcanizing agents that are used are natural...I wouldn't call it organic, but the term natural is entirely accurate in some cases.  The organic components of a Green Sleep mattress are the wool and the cotton (just like every other certified organic mattress).  For someone who is really concerned about inert sulfur ash being way down in the mattress core they should also be very concerned about whether there are heavy metals used in dyeing the cotton covering's or if the cotton was grown non-organically seeing as how basically every single pesticide in the world is a known carcinogenic material and non-organic cotton growth directly kills thousands of people every year.  I don't know what kind of certifications Hastens has for these materials...I know that Vi-Spring uses wood pulp fibre for the top of some mattresses which though incredibly luxurious is technically a form of rayon and has been broken down chemically in order to be spun into fabric.  If someone really knows everything...I am always open to conversation about what truly constitutes "natural"...perhaps there isn't a bed out there that even is.  Sullfur ash is also present in steel before refining much in the same way that it is used in vulcanizing rubber (as well as zinc oxide), both materials after being processed have most of this removed...but they can never remove ALL of it.

All that being said...gotta go with what you find to be most comfortable and if it is justifiable to you for the cost.  I personally like the value that Green Sleep offers, I truly believe in the high end of things they have the best value.  And like other truly high end brands they use functional boxsprings to help with comfort and support, all of these beds are more than mattresses, they are functional sleep systems and to a degree works of art. 

Re: Soliciting feedback on Vi-Spring and Hypnos
Reply #13 Sep 15, 2010 11:17 AM
Joined: Oct 15, 2009
Points: 966
"Realistically the only part of the Green Sleep pocket coil beds that really takes any kind of initial body indentation is the top most sheeps wool layer"

 Budgy, I am not totally sure what you mean by this.  Are you talking about permanent body indentations?

I think the idea of the replacable top level is an interesting one for the Green Sleep pocketed coil mattress.  Can you get the top level in different levels of firmness?

Royal-Pedic also has a top comfort level that can be added/replaced on their mattresses.  Of course, one could always make one as well by putting latex / wool into something like the St. Geneve wool featherbed protector.

Speaking of the heavy metals / pesticides in the cotton.  Does that come out when washed?  Otherwise, you have to worry about clothes, sheets, blankets, pillows, etc. and all of furniture you come into contact with.   Not too mention what you absorb through food, drink, the air.  The question is how much of a risk does all of this pose?  I tend to not take it too seriously, because I figure I am probably being bombarded with all kinds of things if I live in the world today.  I guess every bit can help a little though.

This message was modified Sep 15, 2010 by sandman
Re: Soliciting feedback on Vi-Spring and Hypnos
Reply #14 Sep 15, 2010 12:29 PM
Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Points: 850
Technically some of these things come out during manufacturing, but you will never be completely rid of it.  You know, really I don't worry about these small things too much myself.  To me its just a bonus if something is certified to not have those materials...my only point is that small amounts of these toxins are absorbed by us transdermally every day and it is far more harmful than inert sulfur ash trapped inside other materials whether it be rubber or steel springs, we can however argue over semantics about the fact that iron ferrite has large amounts of sulfur inside it naturally and rubber does not.  Sulfur, phosphorus, and other elements are found in pretty much everything. Lead and mercury are present in most leafy greens...one could go crazy worrying about every single detail. 

To be fair the Hastens beds also have removable pillowtops that can be replaced, however the mattress core where the innerspring system(s) reside is also heavily upholstered.  In the Green Sleep beds, the coil core is quite literally just steel wrapped in rubberized coconut coir, that stuff is STRONG.  Basically the pillowtop is the only wear and tear component and its made primarily out of rubber and then some sheeps wool on top, I would think they get a small body indentation fairly early on from a little bit of wool compaction, but its pretty minor.  The pillowtop you replace perhaps 15~20 years down the road... Hastens recommends you replace their pillowtops every 8 years or so...which to some might be worth it if affordable. 

Yes Green Sleep makes different pillowtops, they use the same coil core and base system for all their pocket coil mattresses.  They also make a bonnell coil without a removable top at a great price, perfect for those that like a firmer feel with a lot of bouyancy.

Basically they make different thicknesses of tops to vary the comfort.  I think its important for me to say that these beds are not designed to feel as soft as something like a Hastens or Vi-Spring...this is a limitation of using the purest most elastic rubber available.  There is a limit on how soft you can make everything.  The most expensive bed comes with a customizable pillowtop that you have some interchangeable rubber layers inside, you can set up each side of the pillowtop firm, medium, or soft.

Re: Soliciting feedback on Vi-Spring and Hypnos
Reply #15 Sep 15, 2010 1:23 PM
Joined: Oct 15, 2009
Points: 966
Thanks.  The Green Sleep top would probably be too firm for my taste.  I would take better sleep over more organic if it came down to to it.

The Green Sleep I see comes with a foundation and not a box spring?  Is that true of all of their coil mattresses?  That seems like it might be a disadvantage?

Are the Green Sleep coils themselves reasonably body conforming or are they pretty stiff?

How would you compare the spring system on the Vi-spring vs. Royal-Pedic?

Re: Soliciting feedback on Vi-Spring and Hypnos
Reply #16 Sep 15, 2010 2:07 PM
Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Points: 850
Green Sleep S200 Base

 

It's definitely a functional base system, dowels and slats placed on natural rubber (that is encased in organic cotton).  I am just hesitant to call it a boxspring as there is no traditional coil spring, but it does contribute to the same bottemless feeling that a proper coil mattress should have. 

As far as the coil system goes I would say its reasonably conforming, more so than any offset or bonnell coil.  The Bonnell coil in the Green Sleep beds would be more comparable to the Offset used in a Royal Pedic.  Yet because of the finer gauge steel and higher spring count used in a Vi-Spring or Hastens bed they will be more able to conform to body shape...I think particularly the Vi-Spring coils is pretty amazing how they have to honeycomb nest everything and tie it by hand.  Thats a labour intensive job to be sure. 

Re: Soliciting feedback on Vi-Spring and Hypnos
Reply #17 Sep 15, 2010 3:09 PM
Joined: Oct 15, 2009
Points: 966
Thanks, I thought it was just a solid wood foundation.  I didn't realize it had some give to it. 

I only see the latex mattress on the Green Sleep website, so they are a bit confusing. 

Looks like Vi-spring is only in Chicago at this point. 

Forgetting the comfort layers for a moment, it sounds like you are saying that the Green Sleep coil system and foundation might provide a more comforming and comfortable base level than the Royal-Pedic? I assume both would last a long time.

Re: Soliciting feedback on Vi-Spring and Hypnos
Reply #18 Sep 15, 2010 3:41 PM
Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Points: 850
GreenSleep's website is really out of date right now.  The coil beds are new and have yet to be added, they are planning on re-launching everything pretty soon.  Yes excluding some differences in upholstery you would be right.  As far as durability its hard to say...the Royal Pedics all use more upholstery in the cores of their mattresses (even the ones with removable tops)....I personally am always of the approach that the less polyurethane and the less fibre used, the better a mattress will hold its shape.  But as I have been quick to admit rubber itself has some limitations....all materials truly do. 

My recommendations for a mattress with no consideration given to cost and unlimited budget assumed:

If someone likes anything firm to medium soft, rubber and or rubber with a quality spring core is simply the most practical. Holds its shape better, still very breathable.  The problem with really low ILD talalay latex's is that they tend to dish out and people will still hammock in bed, I have experienced this first hand on the softest latex bed Natura makes, it might work well for some, but it may not be good for other peoples posture.  This mattress I am speaking of had some 14" of latex, 6" firm dunlop core, 8" of progressively softer layers on top. 

If someone absolutely needs or desires an incredibly soft mattress and needs good posture and alignment, then their chances of acheiving both are better with a Hastens or a Vi-Spring.  The really fine gauge of wire allows people to sink into the coil core more which is a more precise type of contouring than ANY variety of foam will acheive, they will also be marginally more breathable.  The downside is that these beds do have a fair bit of settling of the materials. 

In my immediate neck of the woods there is no one selling Hastens, there is one Vi-Spring dealer and a couple Hypnos dealers.  And then there is myself carrying Green Sleep.  Based on the criteria I outlined above I wish I carried Vi-Spring or Hastens because there is the odd customer (id say 1 or 2 out of 10) that tries a Green Sleep, likes the concept, but doesn't quite find it soft enough.  This is going to be a little less frequent in the future because some of their new models are getting a little bit softer feeling to them.  On the flip side of the coin, I have convinced quite a few people that for them a Green Sleep was a better match for them than a Vi-Spring or Hypnos.  One of these couples simply tried a Vi-Spring and didn't like how soft it was. Another couple loved how soft the initial feeling of the Vi-Spring was (I believe it was the Regal Supreme) but they were really worried about the compression of all that fibre, they have given me an update recently and they are still very happy with their Green Sleep.  Because Hypnos has been around in my area longer, quite a few of these people are actually previous Hypnos owners that found the beds too hard and within several years of ownership were left with a bitter taste in their mouth (the Hypnos beds are all quite firm).   The delivery company I deal with is ran by a husband and wife team...they got a Hypnos bed in their guest room free of charge as the customer that ordered a Green Sleep had no desire for it anymore.  There are no Royal Pedic dealers near me (they approached me to see if we would sell it, and I would if I only had more room to do so).  So I have no real experience comparing a Green Sleep to say a Royal Pedic, to get any feedback on the comfort difference from multiple people.

Re: Soliciting feedback on Vi-Spring and Hypnos
Reply #19 Sep 15, 2010 5:16 PM
Joined: Oct 15, 2009
Points: 966
Thanks Budgy.  At some point down the road I might be upgrading to a larger mattress, and move what I am currently using to a spare bedroom.  I am a side sleeper and like it on the medium to soft side.  From what I have tried,  I think I prefer the spring+latex+something else soft  combo to all latex.   I am also liking the concept of having a good base coil / box spring system, with a seperate/customizable comfort layer. 

Vi-spring is not anywhere close to where I live, and does not have a seperate top layer (from I know).  Might be too expensive as well.  Hastens is at least nearby, and the very top layer might have some flexibility.  A lot of built in fibre though and probably the most expensive option (although I don't know what a Vi-spring costs).   Still, I will probably at least try a Hastens at some point to see what I might be missing.  Maybe I can find a hotel that uses them.

Royal-Pedic is nearby.  They have a lot of cotton built into their basic model, so not sure how that will hold up over time.  Still this might be a decent option.

Green Sleep seems to have the least fibre, as you say.  I viewed it not having the traditional high quality box spring as a possible negative, but sounds like it is better than I thought.   I like the pocketed coil concept as more conforming, but not sure if fatigue on the most used coils would reduce the longevity.

I have been told that they don't sell it without the pillow top layer, and I am not sure if theirs would work for me (if it is essentially dunlop).   Still, I could not use it at all or possibly augment it with something.  I think they have some retailers in
California, but not sure how close.

I am not worried about using softer talalay, as long as it can be replaced.  That will work better for me than dunlop.

 

 


 

Re: Soliciting feedback on Vi-Spring and Hypnos
Reply #20 Sep 15, 2010 5:38 PM
Joined: Aug 31, 2007
Points: 404
sandman, is there a Carpe Diem dealership in your area?  They basically have a spring system very similar to the Hastens (both Swedish companies) but use a Talalay latex topper instead of the horsehair/cotton. I liked them better than the Hastens but to import one into Canada was just out of the question for my budget.

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