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I'm trying to figure out a good configuration for latex layers to alleviate some lower back pain, and I'd love to get some feedback from forum members experienced with this kind of thing. I have no local access to latex components, so I'm basing this on what I've read from others on the forum. Our current mattress, the firmest we could find, began to sag and lose support shortly after we bought it. The addition of a 2" firm latex topper (and removal of PU foam) helped somewhat, but it appears the springs are the underlying problem. I wake up every morning with significant stiffness across my lower back and hips. We're in our mid-thirties. At 6', 170 lbs, I'm the largest. I generally prefer to sleep on my stomach/back, but with our current mattress stomach sleeping is painful, so I've become a back/side sleeper. My wife is predominantly a side sleeper, but she's also more or less unaffected by our current problem. I know we'll have to do some experimenting to get the right combination, but I'd really like to hear some suggestions about where to start. I already have 2" of firm from FBM. --Firm vs. extra firm core? --Do most people with overall firm mattresses still have some softer components? Ultimately I'm wondering which components I should begin shuffling around. Something like the following (although maybe not in that order)? wool pad This message was modified Sep 4, 2010 by a_bear
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a_bear wrote: It felt really pretty soft. I can't see it working. I think all those futons have spoiled me for anything even remotely soft.
Our slats are 1/2" or thereabouts. Not bolted but pretty firmly fixed in place with rubbery end-cap sleeves. Do the package beds require a separate mattress pad? I'm thinking most particularly of Sleepez, which has the firmness options I like, a good rep, and prices I can stomach (somewhat). At lot of them talk about wool in their descriptions of their covers, but I'm not sure if they expect you to use a pad in addition or if the cover suffices. FSF is one that prices pads separately. I'm wondering if I need to be adding $200 more for that to the package price. Given the uncertainty of the FBM pieces and my inexperience with latex, a returnable/swappable package is starting to look like a smarter approach, especially if the price difference isn't that great.
Here is rollout slat foundation. They use 3/4" slats 1.5" or 2" apart. So, I have a feeling your slats probably flex a bit more than most foundations. I am not sure if that is a problem, but probably not optimal. Can you add more slats to it? You may want to add or move some towards the center. One thing that some people have done to shore up a sagging mattress is to put some towels or something like that on top of the box spring in the sagging area. That may be difficult on your slat foundation and probably a tempory fix at best. You can use any mattress pad you want. A good one might be a plus (St. Dormier wool filled), but probalby not necessary if you have one already. If you find it too hot with a cheaper on, then you may want to buy a better one. |
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We've both been sick this past week and my wife decided to sleep in the other room for three nights. I took the opportunity to sleep on the hump, where the center support keeps the mattress from dipping at all. Three days in a row I woke up with no back pain. So it turns out maybe I like a mattress with nothing springy under it at all. As an experiment, the last two nights I've slept with a piace of 1/4" plywood on top of the slats beneath my lower back. Not quite as good as the hump, but better than it was. Today I'm trying with a piece of 1x4 that I've trimmed to fit snuggly between the slats below my pelvis, raising my hips a bit to take the pressure off the lower back. We'll see how that works. It probably won't do my hips any favors if I roll onto my side, but it's worth a try. If all else fails, I may cover all the slats with a 1/2" piece of plywood, and then the entire bed should feel like the hump. Who knows, maybe another alternative to Lovegasoline's idea about a stiffening agent. |
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a_bear wrote:
We've both been sick this past week and my wife decided to sleep in the other room for three nights. I took the opportunity to sleep on the hump, where the center support keeps the mattress from dipping at all. Three days in a row I woke up with no back pain. So it turns out maybe I like a mattress with nothing springy under it at all.
As an experiment, the last two nights I've slept with a piace of 1/4" plywood on top of the slats beneath my lower back. Not quite as good as the hump, but better than it was. Today I'm trying with a piece of 1x4 that I've trimmed to fit snuggly between the slats below my pelvis, raising my hips a bit to take the pressure off the lower back. We'll see how that works. It probably won't do my hips any favors if I roll onto my side, but it's worth a try. If all else fails, I may cover all the slats with a 1/2" piece of plywood, and then the entire bed should feel like the hump. Who knows, maybe another alternative to Lovegasoline's idea about a stiffening agent. The 1/2" plywood might be a good test, and possibly put a folded towel or blanket on top of the board and under the area that is sagging too much to see if that adds some support. This message was modified Sep 14, 2010 by sandman
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I just jumped in again here again, have been AWOL in swapping out a scuff mattress I have to keep.. and experimenting with my "surgery". See my post as it relates to your efforts. Several notes: I found that as little as 1/2 inch of pretty soft poly... probably 20 ILD.. on top of the felt on top of my Serta "firm" springs took a substantial amount of the "bend" or accommodation out of my springs. For my 170 lbs side sleeper that was a bad thing, so I took it out. You are on the right track to "stiffen up" a layer above the springs. Let me make a suggestion: before plunking big dollars for "base foam" out of latex, experiment with similar firmness poly foam from www.foamdistributing.com as I have. Their HD 36 (for High Density) Poly foam is quite firm.. and will feel very much like a poor man's "Medium" 35 ILD latex (gee, what a surprise!). You can buy that very cheap. I have also been experimenting with and have compared their "supersoft foam" which I believe feels very close to Foambymail's (the other division of same company.. different website, though for some unknown reason???) 20 ILD latex. So buy a couple of pieces of HD 36 in 1 inch thickness.. you can fold both if necessary.. and can feel what up to 4 inches of that pretty firm base feels like. Order 2 pieces of "supersoft" 1 inch poly, too.. and you can experiment with all of these, before buying expensive latex. These are really inexpensive, and are pretty close in feel to latex. And regarding sagging springs: lay a straight edge across the springs from several angles.. top to bottom, side to side, etc. and measure any dips. When springs give out, they don't return to full height. If there is no unloaded dip, they are likely still OK. And as I posted in another post, because of the economy, lack of available credit, mattress wholesalers are selling name brand mattresses for really cheap, especially ones that were in showrooms, minor scuffs or dirt marks that don't hurt the mattress at all.. just save you a bundle. I have bought Sealy Reserve Q for $570 (set)... Simmons BR World class same, Stearns Estate for $790. Look under craigslist in your town and the wholesalers will advertise there. Go get you a new mattress for small dollars to serve as your base. Be sure to Reserve (Sealy) and World Class( Simmons) are the minimum quality to have encased perimeter coils which you will need to hold the mattress together for mattress surgery. Lower lines don't have it and will require some other mechanism to hold them up. The upgrade dollars for encasement get you there, and are really cheap. There was another issue along the way, but by jiminy, forgot what it was.
Good luck! shovel99
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I can add more slots between the original ones (there's about 2 3/4" room), and 1" dimensional lumber isn't far off from 3/4", so in theory I think it can be made to work. I could do it up and down the length of the entire bed, though I doubt it's necessary under my legs and feet (and head probably). Whether or not my back agrees remains to be seen. Last night was the first try and it seemed okay. We'll see what I think after a few more nights. The springs are still a bit softer than I'd like, and no doubt they'll only get softer, but if we can limp along awhile like this I'll be happy(er). I think I'm going to hold off for now on investing in more foam for these springs. I have 2" of 32 ILD, and while HD 36 might be a bit firmer, I'm not sure any topper is going to offset the softness of the springs. One option I discussed with Sleepez, though, is that they'd be willing to sell me a smaller mattress (the SS 7000, for instance) with a larger mattress cover (the one for the SS 10,000, for example), allowing me to reuse the 32 ILD latex I already have, instead of buying the same thing again from them as part of the standard SS 10,000 (with M,F,XF configuration). This would void the warranty, but it's one way to save $400 (not including the $$) I spent already on my current latex. |
| In case any one else is experiencing something similar, I thought I'd follow up and report that placing 1/2 plywood across all the slats has in fact fixed the bed. For the first several weeks afterward I was still a little stiff, but months have passed and my lower back problem has entirely disappeared. The mattress is still a touch softer than I'd ideally like—it's not perfect for stomach sleeping—but it's far better than I'd imagined it would be. In the end, my set up is an inner spring mattress with all the foam and the quilted topper removed, replaced with 32 ild latex, and 1/2 playwood on top of the slats. All is now well. |
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Thanks for the update! I wish more people would update this Forum when they find a solution to their problem. We suspected that the slats were flexing too much, so glad to hear that you figured out a cost effective solution. |