Hello folks. I did a bunch of research around here months back but kind of put it off until now as we had to find a place to live to actually use the matress.
From what I have gathered I realized I was over my head when it comes to beds. Ive had two beds for most of my life, they were both pretty horrible and my current matress bows horribly in the middle. This of course causes back pain for the fiance and myself. Thus durability and longevity is very important. Im willing to spend decent money on a latex if I know I won't have to replace it in 5-10 years and it wont be bowed and deformed.
I believe I want 100% Talalay blended latex. That seems to have a semi consensus as far as value and holding up over the years, and returning to form faster than memory foam after movement. We also want a King size, eastern as well. The fiance isn't too particular about layout or layers, she doesn't believe so at least, as she can pretty much sleep anywhere. I am a pretty big guy, 6'3 265. She is about 5'7, 125. I sleep mostly on my back and some on my side in recent years, mainly because my bed is so bad. This has helped ease up the back pain. We live in West Michigan and I seem to have little luck when it comes to matress vendors around here knowing much about latex, nor being able to find some for me to test out something similar at least.
I do know about foambymail and sleepez and have read various reviews about them and threads here.
So I have some questions:
1. Am I making the right choice as far as composition, 100% talalay latex? Do I want a bottom layer/firmer layer of dunlop?
2. What kind for firmness, ILD, setups should I get? The firm, medium, soft seems to be mentioned a lot but I am not sure how to find out if a soft top layer is "too soft". Nor do I know how specific I should get at each layer.
3. Where is the best value? Am I going to have to go FBM? SleepEZ? Should there be anything local that should be comperable? Maybe something I can at least test out?
4. Do most covers, say at FMB or SleepEZ, fit any size/build? Outside of a cover (wool seems to be the go-to) is it a no-no to put anything else on top of it? Does it affect breathability and or negate the benefits of the latex? Do sheets go below a cover or on top of it?
5. We will also need a foundation, slats seem to be the recommendation, best price/value on that? Will any slatted foundation still sit just fine inside of a bed frame set that we may get down the road? I am not sure how all that works out. Right now I just have a matress, bed spring, and that sits on a metal frame.
6. I am also worried about temperature. I like to go to sleep "cooler" and put on sheets/blankets as I warm up. Will latex be too warm? Will a wool cover will that not be an issue?
7. Can I expect 10-20 years out of this? I see some of these places have 20 year warranties (SleepEZ). What does that entail? Just workmanship and defects? Does it entail wear and tear? Divots or bows in the latex in time? Is that even a worry with latex?
Thanks for any help guys. The most I have ever spent on a bed was like $400, so this is a major upheaval in my train of thought but I really want a good investment that is comfortable for the future for the fiance and I when we move in together.
1. I have no experience with adjustable beds. I folded a 3" Queen 40/44 ILD Talalay to double it up and it did tear/separate significantly at the fold under stress. I repaired it with 3M FoamFast 74 spray adheasive. Conclusion: The firmer the Latex, the more likely it will burst apart under such folding stress. An adjustable bed may not push it to such extremes, but sitting/moving on a significant bend may increase wear and tear.
2. No individual layer cover is required for use with a flat foundation. Might change the Latex behavior and/or introduce undesired slip. Perhaps such slip covers would help manage layer-on-layer stress in an adjustable bed application, particulalry with severe adjustments, or maybe it would be counter productive by permitting the layers to separate and not behave as one. Also, 12" of Latex may be too much for an adjustable application.
3. At this point, I would recommend using the 36 and 40/44 to build the 6" core for support. Then add the comfort layers... not too deep and not too soft or else it will sag. With a 12" mattress and a 6" core, the top 6" cannot be all comfort without risking sink and sag. Your current layers 40-36-32-28 are likely firm for you... the 28 feels soft to one hand but it's firm on the body/face and it reaches down to more firmness. That 32 layer helps extend the core and avoid too much comfort depth. But you are missing softness on top.
You might be ok pushing the 28 down and using 24 or less on top. Using just 3" layers can present its own difficulty when trying to craft the comfort layers, not too soft, not too deep.
I hesitate to mess with your wife's core 36-32-32-28, although the core layers seem to trend less firm. I'd be tempted to make it at least 36-36. Her comfort layers probably present the same lack of softness as your formula due to the 28 on top. Like your side, an adjustment on top is required, but I hesitate to guess what that should be. If you make that adjustment in a 3" increment, her softer core layers below may become less supportive.
Given a 4-layer build, going xf-f-m-s seems reasonable, particularly xf on bottom and s on top. But I hesitate to give unqualified advice. I'm still discovering this subject.
4. Seems to me that a split adjustable bed is destined to have two separate mattresses on it. Else, one mattress and equal adjustments. Given a CA King at 72x84", buying bedding could be more difficult if fully split, or just a more expensive nuisance at CA King size.
Consider whether or not you have inherited something worth keeping. The 84" is not critical for your heights; the 72" is less generous than the 76" of a King; and if you do not use the adjustable function... Being the devil's advocate here.
Thank you very much, GKDesigns!
1. The bed movement and bends are not extreme so I think we'll be ok. Hopefully the 40 ILD base will be ok.
2. Since SleepEZ doesn't offer socks and you don't detect a big concern, we'll go sockless. The Prodigy is rated to lift 600 lbs per side (in addition to the mattress weight) so, as long as the 4-layered mattress is able to bend correctly (I think it will), we should be fine.
3. I appreciate your advise on the ILD ratings. We'll start off with your base suggestions and 24 on the top layer. We have 30 days to exchange any layer and I think starting off with 24 on top will be fine.
4. Our current mattress/bed/frame setup, as well as the bedding, is Cal King so we're stuck with it (especially the bed head/foot and side rails, which is an expensive Cal-King designer set). The two Prodigy base units can be programmed to move in tandum or independant of each other, so we can purchase a single Cal-King mattress or two XL singles. My wife likes to cuddle and doesn't want to feel the seam, so I'll cave in and go with a single mattress cover w/split cores inside.
Actually, we expect to use the adjustable bed daily. We have a 60" Plasma in the bedroom that we watch and we read and use our laptops & tablets in bed. We'll use the adjustable bed a lot!
Thanks again for your insight. We're about to pull the trigger!
Sorry for the long post, but there have been some updates I’d like to share and get your opinion on.
We set up the LP Prodigy dual Cal King adjustable bed yesterday, paired them to move in tandem then placed our existing 12" Latex/PolyFoam combo mattress on top. We learned the following:
1. Thank God the Prodigy Cal King bed came in two pieces! The units are heavy and were difficult to maneuver through our narrow hall and into our existing bed frame. A single adjustable Cal King bed would’ve been impossible to work with. I’m glad LP split this size into two smaller pieces.
2. The Prodigy works great! The massage unit is strong, penetrates our 12" mattress easily and provides great vibration at the medium setting. We like the alarm but doubt we’ll use the iPad option, and we’re hesitant to wake each other with the snore option. Over-all, the Prodigy is really nice!
3. We like the Cal King 1-piece mattress and will stick with the tandem setup. Tandem movement was easy to program. We were informed the system would only recognize ONE remote when set to move in tandem, thus making the second remote useless. This IS NOT true. Tandem movement can be controlled by BOTH remotes.
4. You stated a 12" mattress might be too thick for an adjustable bed and we agree. While the Prodigy easily lifts the 12" mattress and our weight, our 12" mattress doesn't conform to the adjustable bed well. This is likely due to the stiffer polyfoam in the mattress. SleepEZ feels a 9" mattress is better for our weight (my wife is 5'8" and 188 lbs. and I'm 5'9" and 160 lbs.). They also feel 4 layered mattresses are better for people over 300 lbs.
5. Lastly, my wife and I watched each other over the last few nights and confirmed we’re side sleepers. I will sleep on my back if I’m experiencing back issues, but I sleep on my side otherwise; and wake on my side in either case.
Based on the information you and SleepEZ provided, we've decided to buy a 9”, 3-layer LI Talalay blended SleepEZ 10000 mattress split down the middle to accommodate differing layers, instead of the four-layer SleepEZ 13000 model. It’s been a while since we tested the 9” configurations, and I’m no longer sure about our preferences.
When we last tested them, my wife preferred a 3” 36 ILD bottom core, a 3” 32 ILD middle core, a 1.5” 32 ILD core over this, topped with a final 1.5” layer @ 28 ILD. She believed she could even replace the top 1.5” 28 ILD with a 1.5” 24 ILD.
I preferred a 3” 40 ILD bottom core, a 3” 36 ILD middle core, a 1.5” 32 ILD core over this, topped with a final 1.5” layer @ 28 ILD. At the time I felt I could replace the top 1.5” 28 ILD with a 1.5” 24 ILD but, as I stated above, it’s been a while since we tested those configurations and I’m no longer sure.
SleepEZ said they don’t order 1.5” cores from LI. They sell 2” cores from Radium, their #1 Latex seller. They only buy 3” LI latex cores in these ranges: Soft from22 to 24 ILD, Medium from 30 to 33 ILD, Firm from 35 to 40 ILD and Extra Firm is 44 ILD. When they order latex from LI, they simply order 20 softs, 20 mediums…etc. They don’t order specific ILDs. They can hand pick latex to our range, but cannot promise specifics.
GK, all the information you provided previously was based on a 4-layer choice. Now that we’ve settled on a 3-layer mattress, what are your thoughts on the following?
1. Based on SleepEZ’s core range described above, what should we go with on my wife’s side (again, she’s 5’8” and 188 lbs., a side sleeper who prefers a softer top layer) and my side (5’9”, 160 lbs., a side sleeper looking for the best match to help recurring lower back problems)?
2. This morning, the SleepEZ rep suggested Firm, Med, Soft for me and Firm, Med, Med for my wife. He believes this to be the case even though my wife likes her top softer than mine and our current mattress (rated plush) is too firm for her. We could be wrong about what’s best for her weight/mattress combo, but I’m sure my wife will balk at the idea her top layer is firmer than mine, especially after our initial testing. Do you agree she should go with med-med-firm? What is your rationale either way?
3. Do you think our choice to go with a 9” mattress over the 12” is the best choice?
4. Lastly, in light of the growing number of companies that only sell and/or suggest 100% natural Talalay latex (FoamSweetFoam, et al), and our recent discussion in the other thread, has any of this recent information changed your opinion that blended Talalay latex is better than 100% natural Talalay latex?
Thanks in advance for your reply!
Bad News: SleepEZ advised us they only have LI blended Latex ILDs in 24, 32, 40 & 42 in Cal King on hand. We were told they get shipments once a month and that we'll likely have to wait a month before they get different ILDs.
This bummed us out as we were ready to purchase today.
In other news, my wife and I spent some time in the bedroom, measuring our mattress and deciding what works best with our bedroom furniture. I think a 12" mattress will look better but wifee thinks 9" will be better as this height will put the top of the mattress at the same height as our side tables.
>>They also feel 4 layered mattresses are better for people over 300 lbs.
I've seen this recommendation around. Point loads such as sitting or kneeling plunge deep into Latex, so a heavier person should consider a deeper mattress.
>>my wife is 5'8" and 188 lbs. and I'm 5'9" and 160 lbs., we’re side sleepers.
>>1. Based on SleepEZ’s core range described above, what should we go with on my wife’s side (again, she’s 5’8” and 188 lbs., a side sleeper who prefers a softer top layer) and my side (5’9”, 160 lbs., a side sleeper looking for the best match to help recurring lower back problems)?
Briefly, height and weight support requirements are similar. Her shape may prefer more cush for hip and shoulder plunge. Your back would not want too much cush to interfere with the core support... but you are lighter. Your requirements may vary slightly from being the same, specifically in the comfort layer(s).
I don't think I'm qualified to make a recommendation from here other than to suggest what I would do. I'm troubled by the 3x3" and ILD stock restrictions. My limited experience has shown me that a 3" top layer can be alright or all wrong. So, if using 3" layers, my thinking is to build the mattress with 2 core layers (36-44) and 1 top layer... the right top layer trending toward firm. And then finish it off with a ~1.5" plush layer under the mattress pad. This formula:
I know this is a tortured discussion, but it is where my thinking is at this time... 3x3" expects one 3" comfort layer to be both surface comfort and provide intermediate plunge; 4x4" is not required here and expects the same; 3x3" core plus transition with ~1.5" plush on top is the formula I'm targeting.
My formula might yield for you:
1.5" 19 ILD contouring pillowtop
>>3. Do you think our choice to go with a 9” mattress over the 12” is the best choice?
If you go 4x3", you have more options for rearranging the layers... but from my experience, this may appease someone, but it did not feel right putting softer layers under firmer layers... too jiggly/not progressive firmness... and it does not solve the principle problem of a 3" top layer being too much of one ILD UNLESS it is that firm transition layer above the core that works support-wise but is ultimately not surface plush... it pushes back.
>>4. Lastly, in light of the growing number of companies that only sell and/or suggest 100% natural Talalay latex (FoamSweetFoam, et al), and our recent discussion in the other thread, has any of this recent information changed your opinion that blended Talalay latex is better than 100% natural Talalay latex?
I'm open to being convinced otherwise, but at this time, blended seems fine to me. However, sourcing it may be a problem. It would not hurt to ask for it... maybe they have it.
>>wifee thinks 9" will be better as this height will put the top of the mattress at the same height as our side tables.
At 6'-1", I find ~28" to be a good mattress height... 30" max... 31-32" was a little annoying. In theory, the mattress height should be dictated by the platform, not the mattress, since the mattress build has more important criteria to satisfy. I guess the adjustable bed does not include a height adjustment.
You're the man! Thank you very much for your detailed explanation! Your posts were a tremendous help and I'm sure they’ll help others in the future. I can’t thank you enough for the help you provided!
As soon as I read your suggestion to use three 3" cores and a 1.5" 19 ILD on top, I knew this was the formula for us! Of the companies we spoke to, only our local dealer offers 1.5” LI blended Latex cores. They agreed to lower their price to something slightly higher than SleepEZ’s plus tax, so I’ll see them today or Thursday to finalize the purchase.
My wife still prefers Foamsweetfoam’s mattress cover. They place the zipper on the side, a few inches below the top edge. When fastened, the top cover overlaps the zipper and hides it. It’s a nice touch, but Foamsweetfoam doesn't sell the cover separately. Additionally, their cores are not cut in half to provide individual comfort levels per side. They charge an additional $100 per layer to cut the cores. Even if I wanted to purchase their 100% natural Talalay mattress, this alone would turn me off.
BTW, our current 12” mattress is 30” from the floor. Your configuration will reduce the height to 28.5”. My wife appreciates the reduced distance to her table and the floor!
We’re going with a 3-layer Latex International blended Talalay 3” split core mattress and will top it with 1.5” of ILD 19 (a complete Cal King size core – not split). Based on your recommendations and what I recall we liked, I’m leaning toward the following configuration(s):
My Side (160 lbs, 5’9” - My 2nd choice is in parenthesis)
1.5” 19 ILD Relief Core - (same)
3” 28 ILD Relief Core - (24 ILD)
3” 36 ILD Base Core – (same)
3” 40 ILD Base Core – (same)
Wife Side (188 lbs, 5’8”- Her 2nd choice is in parenthesis)
1.5” 19 ILD Relief Core - (same)
3” 28 ILD Relief Core - (24 ILD)
3” 32 ILD Base Core – (36 ILD)
3” 36 ILD Base Core – (40 ILD)
I’m visiting the store tomorrow to test my configuration(s). My wife won’t be able to test hers before we purchase.
So, this is it – my last question: Which of the above two configurations do you prefer first and second for my wife?
Thank you kindly, Sir!
>>My wife still prefers Foamsweetfoam’s mattress cover.
Agreed, it's very nice.
>>My Side (160 lbs, 5’9” - My 2nd choice is in parenthesis)
1.5” 19 ILD Relief Core - (same)
>>Wife Side (188 lbs, 5’8”- Her 2nd choice is in parenthesis)
1.5” 19 ILD Relief Core - (same)
>>So, this is it – my last question: Which of the above two configurations do you prefer first and second for my wife?
I'm just a short bit ahead of you on your Latex journey... those builds are too close to IT for me to refine from here. You'll probably like your first choice... firm with a plush touch. She may like her first choice, although I like the thought of softening the cush to 24 and firming the core to 'core values'... just hard to know how it will interact... will 28-32 feel better than 24-36?... I don't know except that firming a lower layer will make the layer over it more firm. I also like the idea of making the bottom layer all one base core ILD... more like a base... but sometimes my quest for form does get in the way of function!
Note that a rated layer is tested in 6 areas and typically varies across the mattress by as much as 1,2,3 or so increments... so a 32 could have some lower and higher firmness ratings. If we knew where they were, we could think about putting certain areas to one side or the other... good thing we don't know!
Make sure your back doesn't sag when you lay on your front.
I spoke to my wife and she believes she'll prefer the 24 ILD under the 1.5" 19 ILD. According to Latex International's figures, they consider 36 ILD an extra firm / base core.
She thinks 19/24/32/36 might be fine, but I worry 36 might be too soft for her weight/spine alignment, and I'm now leaning towards 40 at the bottom.
I also agree with your statement, "I also like the idea of making the bottom layer all one base core ILD... ". This would basically give us matching sides.
Our local store just called - it appears they might want to keep the price the same regardless if we go with a 1.5" or 3" layer as the fourth top core.
I'm meeting with the shop tomorrow to discuss this face to face. If they won't reduce the price accordingly for the 1.5" vs 3" (appx $200 per my calculation), we might have to go with four 3" layers or squeeze a second 1.5" layer with a different ILD (14 or 24).
I'm not sure what's the best way to go.
|Hi.. you all are kidding here right.. I mean all the spec's etc. and what you will add and buy to make a bed here.. it's incredible the lengths you all will go through to construct a mattress.. please continue to shop and look for other options.. but do not waste your money buying these expensive toppers that will be a pain on top of the beds to make and will only cover up the uncomfortable for a short period of time .. that is a money pit if I ever heard of one.. not to mention you thinking 10 to 20 years of anything in this lifetime.. ..not going to happen.. and if you are talking of making your bed from scratch.. forgetaboutit..!! if you think a 400 dollar investment will buy you comfort.. think again.. not going to happen other than frustrate the heck out of you.. keep shopping and keep laying on many beds.. keep a journal of where you were and what you laid on and keep going back to lay on them again.. until your gut tells you ths is the one.. but to just buy a bunch of layers of this and that and latex here and whatever else you need for support and comfort on top of this or that.. you will drive yourself mad doing it.. YOU are not a manufacturer.. This site gives me a turn every now and again and I must say this post was as good as it gets...keep looking at mattresses to buy..|
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