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I just purchased a new FloBeds. It is the 100% natural Talalay 4 layer mattresses. The top most layer being a soft egg crate 2" piece of Talalay. I purchased the following configuration. On the left side of the bed I have a median top layer, firm middle layer, and extra firm bottom layer. On the right side the top layer is firm, the second layer is extra firm, and the bottom layer is extra firm. I felt that this should give me an opportunity to switch the layers around and come up with the configuration that will work the best for my 6' 2" 210 pound frame. It has been quite a wrestling match, reading all the different descriptions that various people like, when it comes to firmness layers. You also run into this with some of the websites. No two people seem to consider this the same way. So I'm just going to have to experiment. This is one of the main reasons that I went with FloBeds. They have the most liberal exchange policy coupled with a generous return policy. They definitely get more money than some of the other sites. But when you're purchasing something this expensive from the Internet, and cannot lay on it, feel it, look at it, and even smell it, it's good to have a situation where you can make corrections at a nominal expense. Given the fact that FloBeds has an excellent reputation with the BBB, and Dave and Dewey Turner are excellent people to do business with, it just seemed to make good sense to me to consider the extra cost as an insurance policy. One last point I would like to make. I just realize that I have been misspelling FloBeds name. I had been misspelling it "FlowBeds." Wrong! It is spelled FloBeds.com. I hope I have not misdirected anyone. It will probably take about a week to get this bed in my home, set up, and slept on. When I have had an opportunity to do this I will be sure to post back and let you know what my experiences are, as I know how confusing this kind of a purchase can be. This message was modified Sep 22, 2009 by eagle2
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Eagle, would you say the difference between the blended and 100% natural (assuming 1 firmer on the blended) is significant or pretty minor? Not sure if I should try a XF piece of 100% natural. I have been going firmer over time. Currently F over XF over XF. Tha is the firmest I can go with the pieces I have. Even that might feel like I am sinking in too much with the convoluted layer and a thicker mattress pad (for temperature control). I think 1" of something might work better than the convoluted for me. Or perhaps SF on the bottom layer. |
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sandman wrote: Eagle, would you say the difference between the blended and 100% natural (assuming 1 firmer on the blended) is significant or pretty minor? Not sure if I should try a XF piece of 100% natural. I have been going firmer over time. Currently F over XF over XF. Tha is the firmest I can go with the pieces I have. Even that might feel like I am sinking in too much with the convoluted layer and a thicker mattress pad (for temperature control). I think 1" of something might work better than the convoluted for me. Or perhaps SF on the bottom layer. Sandman I have forgotten, do you have an all natural or a blended latex FlowBeds? Regarding your question "would you say the difference between the blended and 100% natural (assuming 1 firmer on the blended) is significant or pretty minor?" It all depends on the individual. I'm assuming you're asking if you had an extra firm piece of blended latex would it feel the same as a firm piece of natural? Or is your question, if I had an extra firm piece of blended would feel the same as an extra firm piece of natural? My assumption is, (based on my very limited experiment) that a firm piece of natural would feel very similar to an extra firm piece of blended. but as I say this is a very individual thing. You may feel no difference at all, or a slight difference. If you have an all natural FlowBeds, then your configuration of F/XF/XF, at your weight, should be more than adequate for support, it would seem to me. |
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Leo3 wrote: Kimberly, You have 3 layers of 36ILD, which is less than 8", but I thought you said your mattress is 10". Do you have another layer there? I got samples of 28 and 32 ILD of Talalay Latex from Sleep like a bear. I wanted to get a sample of 36, but they didn't have any. I think that may be what I need. I have (from Overstock which doesn't list ILD) 1 1/2" of firm latex (perhaps 44?), 1 1/2" of 24ILD Talalay (that was marked) and 1" 21ILD (Natura latex) and 1" cheap memory foam. I need something more for my hip area, my shoulders are good. I think this may be too soft, but I have no back pain so it isn't too soft. The reason I think it is too soft is I feel trapped (sunken) by latex around the legs (below hip area). By the way this is over a good firm spring mattress. Any ideas from you or anyone else? Yes, I'm rounding. The layers are actually 2 3/4" I believe, and then there's a 2" convoluted topper. I have been wondering too if XF blended = F all natural, if this issue of density = support is true. I am not having that issue of sinking into my mattress that someone else is asking about. Sure, the mattress compresses in my hip area, but I don't feel sunken into the bed. |
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Kimberly said: "I am not having that issue of sinking into my mattress that someone else is asking about. Sure, the mattress compresses in my hip area, but I don't feel sunken into the bed." Hi Kimberly. If your mattress did not compress in your hip area, and all other areas where your body was putting weight on the mattress, it is my confirmed believe that you would be very uncomfortable indeed. The whole problem with mattresses, regardless of an individual's personal preferences, is the ability of the mattress to compress where needed and still give good support to the spinal column. As much as is possible, from everything I have read, the spine needs to remain in as straight a line as possible, particularly for a side sleeper. A back sleeper may need a slightly different alignment situation. I believe our problems come in the area of softness. We all like a "nice cushy soft feel" when we first lay down on a mattress. The question is, will this "nice cushy soft feeling mattress", give our backs adequate support throughout the night. I am no expert on this matter, and until just approximately six months ago, I knew next to nothing at all. I have done an extensive amount of research on the Internet, and in practical terms, by owning a latex mattress, to learn the little bit that I now know. it is my assumption that very possibly the best sleeping surface bed is either a properly configured waterbed, or an innerspring mattress. Latex mattresses, while being a very good and acceptable sleeping surface, lacks the adaptability to the human body that can be configured into a waterbed or and innerspring mattress, at least that is my assumption. Unfortunately waterbeds can leak and can have other problems, and quality manufactured innerspring mattresses can be very expensive, and shipping them around the country can be very awkward and expensive. Innerspring mattresses have been around the longest of any configuration. The most expensive mattresses in the world are innerspring mattresses. There is one innerspring mattress made in, I believe it's Switzerland are one of those Nordic countries, that makes custom-made mattresses that cost many, many, thousands of dollars. The one I looked at cost $12,000. It is an innerspring mattress with a comfort layer that is principally composed of horsehair! So this is not an easy subject to get adequate information on. It takes a lot of time, a lot of research and experience,and sometimes money, or just a lot of dumb luck to come up with the proper sleeping surface for you This message was modified Dec 20, 2009 by eagle2
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Let's say I add another 1 to 2" of latex (firmer layer) to my already 4 3/4" layers over my spring mattress. If it is firm enough and you actually are not sinking into that layer then 5-6" is not too much is it? I am just thinking about people who actually say they are comfy with 2 to 3" over their spring mattress. I have never been that person who was able to get away with only 2 to 3" I still sink to the hard spring mattress. I guess if it was firm like 36ILD or natural latex that is even denser (thanks for the education on that) then that wouldn't compromise my back or make me feel like I am sinking would it. I wish I knew the winning combination for my hips to not be in pain and wake me up after 1-2 hours. I can't stand to sleep on my back!!! It drives me crazy. I want to sleep on my sides, how frustrating this can be after almost a year of experimenting. My back and shoulders are finally happy and have been for months now, but sigh, my hips are still being either compressed by the mattress or the soft layers to the 1 1/2" firm latex on the bottom. I am so envious of people who find comfort with their mattresses or latex or memory foam toppers. I don't think I would be a candidate for an all latex mattress as hard as it is for me to just get toppers to work. My theory is your hips do have to finally land on something to sleep, you can't just float in air. LOL, I wish I could. This message was modified Dec 20, 2009 by Leo3
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Go here and read all about what a real expensive mattress costs and what it is made out of. Read it and weep. http://www.hastens.com/en/THE-COLLECTION/ read the whole website. If you want to read the extremes to which a member of this forum will go read, Jimsocal's posts about his adventures in trying to construct a innerspring mattress to suit his needs, they will be worth your time. Realize that the people who make handmade innerspring mattresses did not come to their conclusions swiftly or easily. And after reading the information on the website I posted you should understand...... that they do not do it cheaply either. We always have dreams about getting the perfect mattress for cheap. Some people accomplish this. But when you consider the fact that we are all built differently, have different needs, and different aspirations regarding a mattress, then it should becomes clear to you that this is no easy process. What you are going through, many, many, people have experienced it all before. I am still trying to get my latex bed just right. The problem is for people like me who are older and have a bad back, or people who are younger and have multiple physical difficulties, is the fact that our bodies change over time. It's very, very, difficult to get a mattress configuration that feels great all the time. About the time you think you have adjusted it right, something happens and you're back to wondering what you can do to make things better. I truthfully believe that once you get a mattress to the point that you are satisfied 85% of the time, or thereabouts, you had better leave well enough alone and enjoy that 85%. This message was modified Dec 21, 2009 by eagle2
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Recalling that on the soft side of my bed I have a medium piece, over a extra firm piece, over and extra firm piece. This is the side my wife slept on. My daughter slept on the firmer side of the bed that is firmer... firm, over firm, over extra firm. My wife weighs 115 pounds and is 5’ 2” my daughter is 135 pounds and 5’ 7”. My wife thought the bed was to firm, and my daughter thought it was about right. Just goes to show you the difference a few pounds can make and how those pounds are distributed. I was particularly curious how my daughter would like it as she can have a hip discomfort if the bed is not correct. She liked it! I am so glad that I found FloBeds and bought their mattress. This message was modified Dec 28, 2009 by eagle2
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Hello eagle2! Well, I just joined this forum after spending many hours reading all of your posts which I am very appreciative of. Thank you! I am about to purchase a latex mattress but admit I only started my detailed research in the past few weeks. I have spoken to both SleepEZ and FloBeds and agree with you that FloBeds might be the best "fit" for us because it appears they are the ones that started the 90 day guaranty process. Wish they offered free shipping as does SleepEZ but that would not be a deal breaker for us. Also, it appears as though their mattress cover may be of higher quality. (How did you like it and did you put another mattress pad on top of it?)But I sure could use your help because from the bit of research I've done, I have received some conflicting info and it seems that you are as detailed in your research as I would be if I had just a bit more time. However, I have to purchase this bed by 12/31 because of health/prescription/tax deadlines as my husband has several herniated cervical discs and needs an adjustable bed to support him properly, especially when his neck "goes out." I, for one, am thrilled at this opportunity to get a new bed because I have my own set of physical issues and have sleeping in pain for years frustrated that my $2000 bed lasted barely five years! Firstly, I see that overall you found the natural Talalay to be denser and more supportive. I don't think I saw much commentary from you regarding the life of the natural v. the blended. When I spoke with SleepEZ, they said the natural only lasted about 10 years; when I spoke with FloBeds they said that the only difference between the two was about being "green" and that they both felt the same and had the same warranty. So, now I am confused. I realize that the all natural has not been out that long but was wondering what you thought? (It seems I also read somewhere that the natural was denser as you said, but felt softer and reacted to body pressure a bit more so that maybe over time this could be an issue and break up quicker? Forgive me if I mixed up any info here...there was a lot of info to absorb in the pages and pages of this forum! Also, I was a bit surprised at how quickly FloBeds told me what mattress I needed based on body weight and size (same as your daugther's for me) without listening to my preferences. He originally suggested a medium/medium with the medium VZone I believe for me but changed it to medium /firm when I insisted i liked a very firm mattress with a bit of a "soft" feel on top. Yesterday, when we bought our adjustable foundation locally (at both FloBed's and Sleep EZ's suggestion I might add...both were very honest about the practicality of that)...I tried a Latex International mattress which was blended Talalay which the local store relabeled as "firm,"and I really liked it...I also tried the ultra firm and liked it as well but it might have been just a bit too hard, not by much though. They categorized their mattresses into 4 groups: soft/medium/firm/ultra. Silly me, I forgot to check the ILD of them which I can still do but I must admit..I haven't gotten so educated on understanding the subtleties (sp?) of yet but don't have much time. However, this convinced me that my instincts were right about wanting a firm mattress. Any input or suggestions? I am also wondering that since the FloBed was so customizable, is it even necessary to go with the VZone? (My issues are mainly hip and shoulder (tendinitis in both) which is why it sounded like a good idea. I know you felt that that might just add too much more work to manager/figure out..but at one point, I also think you stated that if we could truly get a custom fit, that would be closest to perfect. And I am thinking that the VZone almost does that. Also, since you experimented with the different cores so much, I was wondering what you might think of the VZone purely from an engineering point of view? I.E. Could all the extra pieces possibly affect the stability of the mattress by feeling where one piece stops and the next one starts or are they so tightly together in the case that that is not an issue? Ok..last question...why did you pick the 4 layer instead of 3? Sorry for all the questions but if you can find the time to reply soon, I would be most greatful!! Thanks so much!! TJ |
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I hope I have configured my response TJ in the best fashion so as to make that response intelligible. Hello eagle2! Hello. Well, I just joined this forum after spending many hours reading all of your posts which I am very appreciative of. Thank you! You are welcome, thank you for the compliment. I am about to purchase a latex mattress but admit I only started my detailed research in the past few weeks. I have spoken to both SleepEZ and FloBeds and agree with you that FloBeds might be the best "fit" for us because it appears they are the ones that started the 90 day guaranty process. Wish they offered free shipping as does SleepEZ but that would not be a deal breaker for us. As I recall FlowBeds shipping was quite reasonable, about $140 from Firstly, I see that overall you found the natural Talalay to be denser and more supportive. I don't think I saw much commentary from you regarding the life of the natural v. the blended. When I spoke with SleepEZ, they said the natural only lasted about 10 years; when I spoke with FloBeds they said that the only difference between the two was about being "green" and that they both felt the same and had the same warranty. Did you speak to Dave or Dewey? Dave is the owner and Dewey is his son. I think you are overly concerned about years of use. I have heard estimates, on all natural rubber, out to the 50th year. I think a lifespan more in the neighborhood of 20 years would be much safer and more realistic. But I do not believe that this should be your primary concern as they are going to last a very long time, whether a blended bed or an all natural bed, much longer than any innerspring mattress last, at least that is my understanding based on my research. So, now I am confused. I realize that the all natural has not been out that long but was wondering what you thought? (It seems I also read somewhere that the natural was denser as you said, but felt softer and reacted to body pressure a bit more so that maybe over time this could be an issue and break up quicker? Forgive me if I mixed up any info here...there was a lot of info to absorb in the pages and pages of this forum! I found in my limited experience that the all natural with its greater density, to give me more support from a less firm piece of latex than the blended piece did. Also, I was a bit surprised at how quickly FloBeds told me what mattress I needed based on body weight and size (same as your daugther's for me) without listening to my preferences. He originally suggested a medium/medium with the medium VZone I believe for me but changed it to medium /firm when I insisted i liked a very firm mattress with a bit of a "soft" feel on top. You did not stipulate as to your height and weight. But as I indicated in my last post my daughter at 135 pounds and 5’ 7” found the firmer side of my bed (F/F/XF) to sleep well for her. My wife at 5’ 2” and 115 pounds found the softer side of my bed (M/XF/XF) to be too firm for her. You have to take into consideration not only height and weight but personal preference. It's just one of those things you'll have to work out for yourself after giving it a pretty good guess initially when you are ordering. But that's the beauty of FloBeds and their unlimited exchange and quite reasonable shipping charges). Yesterday, when we bought our adjustable foundation locally (at both FloBed's and Sleep EZ's suggestion I might add...both were very honest about the practicality of that)...I tried a Latex International mattress which was blended Talalay which the local store relabeled as "firm,"and I really liked it...I also tried the ultra firm and liked it as well but it might have been just a bit too hard, not by much though. They categorized their mattresses into 4 groups: soft/medium/firm/ultra. Silly me, I forgot to check the ILD of them which I can still do but I must admit..I haven't gotten so educated on understanding the subtleties (sp?) of yet but don't have much time. However, this convinced me that my instincts were right about wanting a firm mattress. Any input or suggestions? I am also wondering that since the FloBed was so customizable, is it even necessary to go with the VZone? (My issues are mainly hip and shoulder (tendinitis in both) which is why it sounded like a good idea. I know you felt that that might just add too much more work to manager/figure out..but at one point, I also think you stated that if we could truly get a custom fit, that would be closest to perfect. And I am thinking that the VZone almost does that. I personally would not want to have had to deal with a V Zone mattress as there are too many conflict experiences for me. Also, since you experimented with the different cores so much, I was wondering what you might think of the VZone purely from an engineering point of view? I.E. Could all the extra pieces possibly affect the stability of the mattress by feeling where one piece stops and the next one starts or are they so tightly together in the case that that is not an issue? You would have to talk to Dave Turner about this as I have no experience, but I believe Dave told me that he sleeps on a V Zone as he has shoulder problems. Ok..last question...why did you pick the 4 layer instead of 3? It just seemed like a mattress that would give me the flexibility that I wanted so that I could make sure that I had a configuration that would suit me over time Sorry for all the questions but if you can find the time to reply soon, I would be most greatful!! Thanks so much!! You are quite welcome and I believe if you will talk to Dave Turner he will be able to help you find a configuration that will be satisfactory for you. The reason I like FloBeds so much is that not only do they have a really great exchange policy, the best in the business as far as I have been able to ascertain, but they have shown me, and many others, the kind of excellent customer service that makes doing business with them quite pleasurable. This message was modified Dec 29, 2009 by eagle2
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Thanks for replying so quickly eagle2! I spoke to Dewey so I guess I will ask for Dave when I call back. As far as firmness goes, I am the same exact height and weight as your daughter. Interesting that she liked the F/F/XF since Dewey originally wanted to put me in a med/medmed and then upped it to med/firm/med when I insisted I liked a firm bed. I think that he might have only heard that I am a side sleeper when in fact, I like side and back sleeping. Since we are going with an adjustable base I suspect that I will be doing a lot more back sleeping because the feeling of having your legs elevated is pretty amazing when you have a good mattress under you. It also takes a lot of the pressure off of your lower back. So, I will see what Dave says and about the VZone as well...I definitely hear ya when you mention it's a lot to manage and since I alread obsessively compulse on perfection, perhaps it's a dangerous option for me! As far as worrying about the quality..yes, I do fully believe the latex will last a long time... it's just that I got so frustrated at having the top two dealers giving me completely different stories on this subject. Doesn't make it any easier to make a decision! I'll let you know what I find out this time... Again, thank you! (P.S. Are you sure you don't work for Flo?! You definitely are such a great supporter...they should be paying you a referral fee! |
Just kidding!