Just bought a new Flobeds
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I just purchased a new FloBeds. It is the 100% natural Talalay 4 layer mattresses. The top most layer being a soft egg crate 2" piece of Talalay. I purchased the following configuration. On the left side of the bed I have a median top layer, firm middle layer, and extra firm bottom layer. On the right side the top layer is firm, the second layer is extra firm, and the bottom layer is extra firm. I felt that this should give me an opportunity to switch the layers around and come up with the configuration that will work the best for my 6' 2" 210 pound frame. It has been quite a wrestling match, reading all the different descriptions that various people like, when it comes to firmness layers. You also run into this with some of the websites. No two people seem to consider this the same way. So I'm just going to have to experiment. This is one of the main reasons that I went with FloBeds. They have the most liberal exchange policy coupled with a generous return policy. They definitely get more money than some of the other sites. But when you're purchasing something this expensive from the Internet, and cannot lay on it, feel it, look at it, and even smell it, it's good to have a situation where you can make corrections at a nominal expense. Given the fact that FloBeds has an excellent reputation with the BBB, and Dave and Dewey Turner are excellent people to do business with, it just seemed to make good sense to me to consider the extra cost as an insurance policy. One last point I would like to make. I just realize that I have been misspelling FloBeds name. I had been misspelling it "FlowBeds." Wrong! It is spelled FloBeds.com. I hope I have not misdirected anyone. It will probably take about a week to get this bed in my home, set up, and slept on. When I have had an opportunity to do this I will be sure to post back and let you know what my experiences are, as I know how confusing this kind of a purchase can be. This message was modified Sep 22, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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sandman wrote: Yes, but I agree with you that it would be nice to have more information on the performance differences. Perhaps too hard to quantify and too subjective. Even some generalties like 100% natural is denser so it should have more suport for heavier people. Or blended less dense so it is more plush feeling, etc. There seems to be little information out there to make an informed decision with. Tthe party line that I seem to have heard is that the performance in basically the same. Sandman: My personal belief is that blended latex exists because it is less expensive to produce. When you stop to think about it 70% of this product is petrochemical. Petrochemicals can be manufactured and purchased at a much reduced price over natural, from everything I can find on the Internet about this subject. Plus the fact that you do not have the potential international difficulties acquiring materials for a petrochemical product as opposed to a rubber tree product. When you look at history synthetic rubber came from the fact that the Japanese during World War II cut off all availability of natural rubber. The opposing warring powers had to come up with a solution to this lack of essential resource. So they developed synthetic rubber. As a child living in California I remember this quite well. To begin with synthetic rubber was a very poor product. We used to make guns made out of sticks that would fire a piece of rubber cut from an old inner tube. The synthetic rubber inner tubes were pathetic. They had almost no stretch to them and thus the rubber bands we got from them had no "firepower" to them. The greatest thing was to be able to find an old natural rubber inner tube, to us they were like gold. Principal thing that we have to keep in mind about latex mattresses is the more dense the material, and the more of this material that is in the product, the more support it should have. I believe we would probably find that Dunlop has one of the higher rates of density. I still believe that Dunlop has a very important role to play in mattresses, primarily as a support core material. But since, as far as I know, there is no Dunlop produced in the USA, except under license by Latex International for which they must pay a fee, and thus do not promote it, but rather promote their own produced Talalay,I do not believe were going to see a lot of Dunlop promoted. It is available from several manufacturers of mattresses. Namely, Savvy Rest, SleepEZ, Habitat, and I'm sure there are others. But density definitely matters. And I am like you, I find it most disconcerting that the latex industry does not seem to want to talk about this factor very much. I wonder why? |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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I agree that the reason is probably that it is cheaper to make, so perhaps they can build in a larger profit margin. There may not be enough 100% natural to go around, so they have to sell a fair amount of synthetic as well to meet the demand. I wonder if they can make the sythentic with the same density as the natural, but choose not to because it would cost more? The blend is still a pretty good product, equal to or better than most (if not all) of the foams they put in the mass produced mattresses. However, if you are heavier and looking for more suport, the denser 100% natural is probably "better" than the blended (of course that is subjective - you would need blind tests to really find out what people prefer). |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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One of the reasons that I requested a blended piece of firm latex, was to have my own personal very small test between it and all natural. I found that the blended piece of firm felt quite similar to the medium piece of natural. And keep this in mind about my natural piece of medium latex. It is on the lower end of the range for medium. It's actual ILD rated by Latex International was 26.2, as I recall. FlowBeds had actually put a sticker on it saying that it was 28 ILD. The medium rating for natural is 26 to 30 ILD. So my piece is at the very bottom of the medium-range and only 2 pounds from the top of the natural soft range. The feeling that I had, upon first laying on the blended piece, was that it felt a little firmer than the medium piece. But after laying on them for several minutes it seemed to me that the medium piece of natural felt every bit as supportive as the firm piece of blended. Now as you say this is entirely subjective. But as I have suggested before, if I were purchasing a blended mattress today, I would go for a higher ILD. For instance I have one side of my bed now in all natural that is firm/firm/extra firm. If I were purchasing this same bed in blended I would go with, extra firm/extra firm/extra firm. Since FlowBeds has such a liberal exchange policy I would feel quite safe in giving this configuration a try. This message was modified Dec 19, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
| Maybe this is why I found myself with all three layers being extra firm (36 ILD). Maybe in a blended you have to order higher up on the ILD scale. I do remember that the first mattress I had from Custom Comfort had a 6" core of 26 ILD latex and that was WAY too soft. But the 36 ILD feels quite firm and offers great support. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Kimberly, You have 3 layers of 36ILD, which is less than 8", but I thought you said your mattress is 10". Do you have another layer there? I got samples of 28 and 32 ILD of Talalay Latex from Sleep like a bear. I wanted to get a sample of 36, but they didn't have any. I think that may be what I need. I have (from Overstock which doesn't list ILD) 1 1/2" of firm latex (perhaps 44?), 1 1/2" of 24ILD Talalay (that was marked) and 1" 21ILD (Natura latex) and 1" cheap memory foam. I need something more for my hip area, my shoulders are good. I think this may be too soft, but I have no back pain so it isn't too soft. The reason I think it is too soft is I feel trapped (sunken) by latex around the legs (below hip area). By the way this is over a good firm spring mattress. Any ideas from you or anyone else? This message was modified Dec 20, 2009 by Leo3
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Eagle, would you say the difference between the blended and 100% natural (assuming 1 firmer on the blended) is significant or pretty minor? Not sure if I should try a XF piece of 100% natural. I have been going firmer over time. Currently F over XF over XF. Tha is the firmest I can go with the pieces I have. Even that might feel like I am sinking in too much with the convoluted layer and a thicker mattress pad (for temperature control). I think 1" of something might work better than the convoluted for me. Or perhaps SF on the bottom layer. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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sandman wrote: Eagle, would you say the difference between the blended and 100% natural (assuming 1 firmer on the blended) is significant or pretty minor? Not sure if I should try a XF piece of 100% natural. I have been going firmer over time. Currently F over XF over XF. Tha is the firmest I can go with the pieces I have. Even that might feel like I am sinking in too much with the convoluted layer and a thicker mattress pad (for temperature control). I think 1" of something might work better than the convoluted for me. Or perhaps SF on the bottom layer. Sandman I have forgotten, do you have an all natural or a blended latex FlowBeds? Regarding your question "would you say the difference between the blended and 100% natural (assuming 1 firmer on the blended) is significant or pretty minor?" It all depends on the individual. I'm assuming you're asking if you had an extra firm piece of blended latex would it feel the same as a firm piece of natural? Or is your question, if I had an extra firm piece of blended would feel the same as an extra firm piece of natural? My assumption is, (based on my very limited experiment) that a firm piece of natural would feel very similar to an extra firm piece of blended. but as I say this is a very individual thing. You may feel no difference at all, or a slight difference. If you have an all natural FlowBeds, then your configuration of F/XF/XF, at your weight, should be more than adequate for support, it would seem to me. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Leo3 wrote: Kimberly, You have 3 layers of 36ILD, which is less than 8", but I thought you said your mattress is 10". Do you have another layer there? I got samples of 28 and 32 ILD of Talalay Latex from Sleep like a bear. I wanted to get a sample of 36, but they didn't have any. I think that may be what I need. I have (from Overstock which doesn't list ILD) 1 1/2" of firm latex (perhaps 44?), 1 1/2" of 24ILD Talalay (that was marked) and 1" 21ILD (Natura latex) and 1" cheap memory foam. I need something more for my hip area, my shoulders are good. I think this may be too soft, but I have no back pain so it isn't too soft. The reason I think it is too soft is I feel trapped (sunken) by latex around the legs (below hip area). By the way this is over a good firm spring mattress. Any ideas from you or anyone else? Yes, I'm rounding. The layers are actually 2 3/4" I believe, and then there's a 2" convoluted topper. I have been wondering too if XF blended = F all natural, if this issue of density = support is true. I am not having that issue of sinking into my mattress that someone else is asking about. Sure, the mattress compresses in my hip area, but I don't feel sunken into the bed. |
Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Kimberly said: "I am not having that issue of sinking into my mattress that someone else is asking about. Sure, the mattress compresses in my hip area, but I don't feel sunken into the bed." Hi Kimberly. If your mattress did not compress in your hip area, and all other areas where your body was putting weight on the mattress, it is my confirmed believe that you would be very uncomfortable indeed. The whole problem with mattresses, regardless of an individual's personal preferences, is the ability of the mattress to compress where needed and still give good support to the spinal column. As much as is possible, from everything I have read, the spine needs to remain in as straight a line as possible, particularly for a side sleeper. A back sleeper may need a slightly different alignment situation. I believe our problems come in the area of softness. We all like a "nice cushy soft feel" when we first lay down on a mattress. The question is, will this "nice cushy soft feeling mattress", give our backs adequate support throughout the night. I am no expert on this matter, and until just approximately six months ago, I knew next to nothing at all. I have done an extensive amount of research on the Internet, and in practical terms, by owning a latex mattress, to learn the little bit that I now know. it is my assumption that very possibly the best sleeping surface bed is either a properly configured waterbed, or an innerspring mattress. Latex mattresses, while being a very good and acceptable sleeping surface, lacks the adaptability to the human body that can be configured into a waterbed or and innerspring mattress, at least that is my assumption. Unfortunately waterbeds can leak and can have other problems, and quality manufactured innerspring mattresses can be very expensive, and shipping them around the country can be very awkward and expensive. Innerspring mattresses have been around the longest of any configuration. The most expensive mattresses in the world are innerspring mattresses. There is one innerspring mattress made in, I believe it's Switzerland are one of those Nordic countries, that makes custom-made mattresses that cost many, many, thousands of dollars. The one I looked at cost $12,000. It is an innerspring mattress with a comfort layer that is principally composed of horsehair! So this is not an easy subject to get adequate information on. It takes a lot of time, a lot of research and experience,and sometimes money, or just a lot of dumb luck to come up with the proper sleeping surface for you This message was modified Dec 20, 2009 by eagle2
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Re: Just bought a new Flobeds
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Let's say I add another 1 to 2" of latex (firmer layer) to my already 4 3/4" layers over my spring mattress. If it is firm enough and you actually are not sinking into that layer then 5-6" is not too much is it? I am just thinking about people who actually say they are comfy with 2 to 3" over their spring mattress. I have never been that person who was able to get away with only 2 to 3" I still sink to the hard spring mattress. I guess if it was firm like 36ILD or natural latex that is even denser (thanks for the education on that) then that wouldn't compromise my back or make me feel like I am sinking would it. I wish I knew the winning combination for my hips to not be in pain and wake me up after 1-2 hours. I can't stand to sleep on my back!!! It drives me crazy. I want to sleep on my sides, how frustrating this can be after almost a year of experimenting. My back and shoulders are finally happy and have been for months now, but sigh, my hips are still being either compressed by the mattress or the soft layers to the 1 1/2" firm latex on the bottom. I am so envious of people who find comfort with their mattresses or latex or memory foam toppers. I don't think I would be a candidate for an all latex mattress as hard as it is for me to just get toppers to work. My theory is your hips do have to finally land on something to sleep, you can't just float in air. LOL, I wish I could. This message was modified Dec 20, 2009 by Leo3
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