| i have a sleepez bed that I keep trying to soften by adding more layers of foam in the case. So I now have 4.5 layers in a case meant for 3 layers. The case still zips, but I wonder if I am compressing the foam so much that it is affecting the feel. I have talalay latex, which always felt springy to me, but I am wondering if this made it more springy? Or if this is bad for the foam? |
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OK so after 1 night on this config (3" med dunlop under 3" soft tal under 2" "soft" tal) I am even more confused... It didn't feel great to me, but it didn't feel bad either, and I slept pretty well. Definitely didn't have the "soft cushy" feel I would like, and I really didn't like sitting on the bed as it felt like it bottomed out that way. But when lying in bed, I didn't feel that, and although I felt some pressure on my shoulders and ribs it wasn't too bad. My back hurts a bit but thats been ongoing so I can't tell if this config had anything to do with that. So, can you make some sense from that? Whats really weird is, this is essentially the same as a previous config I tried except that time the top layer was a 3" soft tal piece from SleepEz and this time its a 2" piece from FBM (which may be firmer that the sleepez piece). And that config definitely felt too soft. |
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I am thinking that your FBM is probably firmer than the sleepez and this and the thinner layer could make quite a big difference. Both would be thick enough for your shoulders but with the FBM on top you would get a completely different reaction as the softer under would compress before the firmer and you wouldn't sink in quite as far or as "point specifically". This is how (thin firmer over thicker softer) they create a mattress for someone that needs to sink in for alignment but doesn't want to sink into the material itself (like a firmer feel). I would think that both of them are still too thick (either 5" of soft or 6" of soft) for the best alignment although with the 2" FBM you would be closer both because it's thinner and because it's firmer. I am suspecting that about 4" of soft "layering" on top over firm Dunlop will be closer yet. The bottoming out from sitting on the side is pretty normal with latex and doesn't happen when you lay on it but if you end up nailing it then it's easy to solve with a REALLY firm layer under all of this. The reason we need something this thin on the bottom for the testing is that it's the only way to get close to having a firm enough support layer with what you have. Anything we test with more than this will almost certainly be problematic. The "soft cushy" feel would usually come from the very upper part of the top layer (top inch or so or even what's over this). The three "moving parts" in a mattress are feel (subjective and connected with how far you sink in, how "soft feeling" the part you lay on is, and other subjective feelings), pressure relief/comfort, and support/alignment. All three of these can be very independent of each other. Even a very firm "feeling" mattress can relieve pressure and support but may be not so good in terms of how it feels to someone. In the other thread, the "zoning" that was recommended is similar (not the same due to different layer thicknesses and a "single cut") to what you would have with your soft 3" sleepez in the upper section and your medium talalay in the lower section. the "critical zone" in that construction is "in the middle" of the 3" layer and it uses the soft upper half of the middle layer for pressure relief. You can either relieve pressure with a thinner layer over a "progressive" (close in ILD) slightly thicker one over firm or a thicker upper softer layer over much firmer. The difference would be in it's "feel" and alignment as the pressure relief would be very similar. Cutting up the convo and using it for the upper part with the soft sleepez on the bottom may also have enough "differential" to accomplish the same thing since the Sleepez soft is 22-24 and the convo ... whatever it is ... would be "acting much softer. So far everything is "going as planned" ... at least since we started with the single Dunlop layer ... and pretty much comfirming what I was hoping to see ... including your experience last night. Your feedback has been great. Given your feedback, it may feel softer with the FBM under (and may be slightly better with your shoulders) and it may be worth trying that as well. After that the memory foam under the sleepez would be what was left in terms of gathering information (and it would be closest to an optimal comfort thickness). From then on we would have a very good handle on what type of zoning would work if it was necessary and/or what type of new layer you would need. I know this is a real hassle to "change things" all the time after you have been at it for so long and it's not so easy to do but I really do believe that with your really good feedback we are really close to knowing what will work for you in the longer term. Phoenix |
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Phoenix wrote: Given your feedback, it may feel softer with the FBM under (and may be slightly better with your shoulders) and it may be worth trying that as well. After that the memory foam under the sleepez would be what was left in terms of gathering information (and it would be closest to an optimal comfort thickness). From then on we would have a very good handle on what type of zoning would work if it was necessary and/or what type of new layer you would need. I know this is a real hassle to "change things" all the time after you have been at it for so long and it's not so easy to do but I really do believe that with your really good feedback we are really close to knowing what will work for you in the longer term. Phoenix Phoenix I'll try the FBM under the sleepez soft tonite and see how that feels. When I try the mem foam do you want me to add it to this config or are you suggesting i use the mem foam instead of the FBM foam? Also, this isn't a hassle, its great! The hassle was changing things but having no idea how to make sense of the results. Steve |
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I'm happy you're enjoying this :). I am too. You get the hard part of actually doing all the re-arranging and I get to be the "peanut gallery" (laughing). The memory foam would be instead of the FBM and would go under the soft sleepez. This would give you about 4" of comfort layering which in terms of thickness should be about right for you in "theoretical" terms (and so far confirmed by your feedback). What's in that 4" is the trick. Phoenix This message was modified Dec 19, 2010 by Phoenix
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Phoenix wrote: I'm happy you're enjoying this :). I am too. You get the hard part of actually doing all the re-arranging and I get to be the "peanut gallery" (laughing). The memory foam would be instead of the FBM and would go under the soft sleepez. This would give you about 4" of comfort layering which in terms of thickness should be about right for you in "theoretical" terms (and so far confirmed by your feedback). What's in that 4" is the trick. OK, so I swapped the FBM foam and the sleepez foam last night, didn't feel much of a difference. I didn't sleep as well last night but I think that's more due to the bad cold I picked up. I'm concerned about using just the mem foam with the 2 sleepez layers. My mem foam is on the cheaper, thinner, meltier side. Maybe 1" tops, and you pretty much sink right thru it. I think it would pretty much like sleeping on just those 2 layers, and I think thats a bit hard. But, again, I'll try it if it really tells us something. Altho I'd rather try the 3 sleepez layers with the mem foam on top Steve |
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You keep trying to sneak that medium talalay back in on me ... But resistance is futile (laughing) ... unless it's pushback resistance from the mattress. The reasoning for the memory foam under the soft sleepez is as follows... For the moment we need a firm support base so that we can "isolate" the comfort layers for testing. If we add the medium in the mix it will affect how the comfort layers respond too much and we wouldn't get the information we need to determine what the best comfort configuration would be. The absolute best way to test a comfort configuration is a rock hard surface like the floor but that is too hard to sleep for longer term overnight feedback so the next best underlying layer to test a comfort configuration is the firmest layer you have which is the compressed single layer of Dunlop. The memory foam under the sleepez will act more like "regular foam" (less or at least slower melting) and is the closest combination we have to test a 4" comfort layer. This feedback will tell us how close we are taking into account the possibilities that are possible with changing what is in 4" rather than changing the thickness. For alignment purposes, 4" is probably the closest we have been (with something firm under it). More than this and you are risking misalignment, less than this and you are risking pressure. The memory foam under may "act" more like 3.5" but it's still the best next step. If we put the memory foam on top ... first you don't like the feel and second it is so thin and probably "meltable" there that we would be testing an "equivalent" thickness that was even less than using it underneath. My goal for now is to test something as close to 4" as a comfort layer as we can using the softest 4" of material that we can. Phoenix PS: if you think that another night or two on what you have now would be worthwhile to gain more accurate feedback on a 5" comfort layer, then that would be valuable as well before we "switch". This message was modified Dec 20, 2010 by Phoenix
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OK, we'll try this, one night only! But if this turns out to be an elaborate prank I'll be so POed... BTW, I didn't like the mem foam when I literally slept right on it (outside of the mattress, only a sheet on top). It was fine with the wool mattress pad on top, and I assume it would be fine anywhere in the mattress (with the mattress cover and a mattress pad on top)... I guess I really don't get where we are going, or how this info will change things. It sounds like we're pretty sure I need a firm (4-6") core with a soft (4") top. Right? |
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I guess I really don't get where we are going, or how this info will change things. It sounds like we're pretty sure I need a firm (4-6") core with a soft (4") top. Right? Exactly. This is the first configuration that we have tested a 4" top on a firm base. Everything else has been thicker in the comfort layers which can lead to alignment issues. While it may not be the "correct" 4", and there are also advantages to a thicker firmer base (has a bigger range to support different positions), it's the closest we have to test out this thickness and layering using what we have available. A medium Talalay added to this layering would play a "dual role". It would act to both soften the support and thicken the comfort layers. Both of which are probably problematic. After a night ... or two Phoenix This message was modified Dec 21, 2010 by Phoenix
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on this, I plan go over everything "with a fine tooth comb" first to make sure the patterns and your feedback are re-inforcing each other before suggesting another step.| OK, well maybe it wasn't as bad as I feared it might be, but it was definitely too firm. It was best on my back, and I think I slept most of the night in that position. I tried sleeping on my side and I'm sure I did for a while but that definitely got old fast. On the plus side I actually liked that it was less bouncy than the 14" I had on a month ago :-) |
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I'm going over all your previous posts to analyze what has happened along the way but I did come across this which I never noticed before from an older post of yours. I think it may solve the mystery of what the convoluted topper is and why it looked so "wierd". I decided to just try a poly foam convoluted topper (for about $90) to see how that works. I ordered that today from Foamorder.com (2.5", 2.0 density, 30 ILD). I'm hoping that does the trick. I will report back when I get the new topper... Later on you were referring to it as latex and that may have stuck in your mind. It certainly explains why it didn't look like latex and was so worn :) It's also 30 ILD and probably has a lower sag factor which also explains some of the effects it was producing. More later Phoenix |