Dissecting my Sealy Fenway mattress bought at CostCo 4 years ago: Lousy soft foam inside!
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This mattress was bought at CostCo 4 years ago. Over a year ago it started to give my wife and I back problems but we had been in an accident and did not realize it was the MATTRESS that was at least half or more of the problem - we thought it was just because of the accident. The accident did indeed cause us problems - especially me - but it became clear over the past few months that this mattress (actually 2 twins that we put side by side) was the problem. So... Today we decided to open up the mattress and see what was inside, and then go down to the foam store where I found out I can buy 1" of HR foam (high resiliency - a very high quality) for $24 in the twin size. So we opened up the mattress on the top seams on 3 sides with an exacto knife. This turned out to be incredibly easy, we just put the knife along the seams - which are held together with a piece of cloth tubing about 1/4" in diameter. So we just ran the knife along the cloth tubing where the top seam is. Once we cut about 6" of this tubing that covers the seam off, we could then grab hold of it and just pull, tearing it off all along the edges of the bed. We did have to use the knife to get the tubing off in a couple areas, but for the most part, it just pulled right off very easily and cleanly. We just tore off the seam /tubing on 3 edges leaving the long edge of one side of the mattress attached so we could open it up like a flap on a box, to get the foam out (and later put new foam in). So when we got the seam cut so we could open up the top and see inside the mattress, we were really shocked. We didn't expect it to be made very well, but we didn't think it would be as crappily made as it was, either. We saw 4 layers of foam on top of the springs, about 3 and 3/4" of the crappiest, cheapest, softest foam you could imagine. Not one firm layer, not even over the springs. Over the springs - which are held together on top with a kind of "chicken wire" - wire divided into small squares - was about a 1/4" layer of memory foam - yes ONE QUARTER inch of memory foam! Why they would put memory foam on the bottom I have no idea. Seems to me that is where you want something firm. Over that there were 2 layers of 1" foam, just cheap polyurethane foam, not even hd, just cheap crappy VERY SOFT cheap foam. Then on the top layer there is a 1 and 1/2" piece of convoluted memory foam, of medium quality - the type you could probably buy on sale as a topper for maybe $20-35. And that's it! No wonder our backs have been killing us! Absolutely NO support at all over the springs, just 3 and 3/4" of the worst, softest foams. Check out my slide show, here of how we cut it apart and what we found inside: (takes about 60 seconds to see the whole group of slides. You need Flash to view it. Most computers do have Flash installed these days. If not, it's free to get and install.) http://img134.imageshack.us/slideshow/player.php?id=img134/1785/1201983161pn8.smil (this link requires that your computer have Flash.) Let me know if you do have flash but it doesn't work. (I wanted to put it up on a page somewhere as just a page of photos but couldn't find an easy place to do that. Anyone know where I could do that, where I could link to just the 8 or so photos and they'd be avalable to the public via this thread, for all time?) So, the plan was to go buy a layer of 1" HR FIRM or VERY FIRM foam to put over the top of the springs (now I'm wondering: do we need 1" or would half an inch be enough, and should it be VERY firm or just FIRM?), but we called before we left just to make sure they were indeed open on Saturday as they said they would be, but they were closed at 10:30am when we called. (This is a warehouse, not a store, so selling foam to me for my mattress is just something they do on the side, not something they stay open for.) So we were forced to improvise until Monday or Tuesday when we can get down there to buy the foam. So, we really had nothing but super soft foam to work with - even the other foam we have is all soft memory foam in 2" and 3" layers, and then we have 2 x 3/4" layers of soft latex, but even that is harder than any of the foam they had inside the Sealy! So what I did was I cut up a big cardboard box and used a layer of firm thick cardboard over the springs. Then I put one layer of the 3/4" latex over the cardboard, and the 1/4" layer of memory foam over that. It actually felt like it was giving me enough support and that I wouldn't feel the springs. I'm doubtful it will feel great, but how much worse could it feel than all that soft cheap foam? If it really kills me I'll try putting the other layer of 3/4 latex on top of everything else. Note that this is just for the weekend or until Monday or Tuesday when we can get the layer of HR foam to put over the springs instead of the cardboard. And we'll also be buying various cut pieces of HR foam in 1" thicknesses that we can use for zoning and layering in a component style. See my other thread in which I give my plan for building up this mattress. The only other comment I have to give, here, is that even the springs seem very shoddy. They are not damaged, they are all in place. But they just seem very weak and soft, not what I really want to be sleeping on. But since we have them, we may as well see how they feel with various densities of good foam and latex on top. This message was modified Feb 2, 2008 by jimsocal
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Re: Dissecting my Sealy Fenway mattress bought at CostCo 4 years ago: Lousy soft foam inside!
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Hey, I think we're onto something here! I love reading where people are doing these autopsies on their old mattresses! Take THAT, Big S companies! Seriously, this could be the new wave of the future. Forget buying a new mattress with the same old, cheap foam. Simply rescontruct the one you already have! The next best thing would be to buy a very thinly padded mattress, as someone had mentioned, and simply adding your own "pillow top" with quality latex or foam. Or if people prefer the feel of a feather/fiber bed. jkozlow3 wrote: Inspired by your post, I just cut open my 9.5 year old Sealy "cushion firm" mattress. Where you had about 3.75" of foam, I had roughly a 3/4" convoluted piece of foam on top of a SUPER thin (1/8" at most) foam layer. So under 1" of total foam in my mattress! No wonder my hips have been getting sore & going numb!<p>The spring system is covered by a layer of what looks like shredded, multi-colored threads with a translucent piece of batting on top (to protect the foam from being punctured I presume). The springs seem fine though, and I can't imagine my 150lbs has worn them out much. So I'm just going to place my 4" worth of latex toppers on top of the springs and buy a zippered mattress encasement for it all. The mattress was getting too tall with all the latex toppers, so I was hoping to cut it down in height a little by removing some of the foam and replacing it with latex. The quilted mattress cover that I cut off the top also had some foam inside of it, so I'll probably save 1.5" total by removing the foam and cover which is exactly what I wanted. My mattress is flippable (made before they went to one-sided designs), so if it's still too tall I can always take the foam and quilted cover off the bottom as well. |
Re: Dissecting my Sealy Fenway mattress bought at CostCo 4 years ago: Lousy soft foam inside!
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jimsocal wrote: Glad I inspired you to cut open your Sealy. But someone else here inspired me (sorry I forget exactly who, but you know who you are and thanks!)...
I'm so delighted the suggestion not only seems to be working out for you, but that your example has inspired others to go for it. I fully intend to reconstruct my own mattress eventually, and your experience has been very encouraging. I almost want to do it now, but the mattress is only 6 months old and I really can't justify tearing it apart at this point. But I know it's only a matter of time before the foam softens up and I start sinking into it. So in the meantime I'm collecting foam, like the Brylane latex topper, for when the time comes. I've already got an assortment of foams to start working with. Please let us know what ILDs of HR foam you are using and how you end up configuring them, as well as what other kinds of foam (latex, visco) you add and what thicknesses you are building with. This message was modified Feb 10, 2008 by cloud9
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Re: Dissecting my Sealy Fenway mattress bought at CostCo 4 years ago: Lousy soft foam inside!
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jimsocal wrote: I really don't think covers are necessary unless you just like them, as in how it looks. As to using the mattress, having a cover is not necessary - the foam seems to stay in place without it. Latex, most other foams (and most other things, for that matter) are easily degrades by UV light. White sheets have very little UV protection (think wet T shirt, but that's another subject). Also stretch is important. You might want to try a "jersey knit" bottom sheet while you're figuring things out, but still protect against UV. However, contrary to what mothers always said, it's bad to make your bed first thing in morning. Really needs a lot of time to air out/dehumidify. A conundrum, but worth keeping in mind. Later, the stretch covers which Tempurpedic (that type) uses are good (and the best thing about Temp., IMO). NOTE: I don't like visco--fumes, and breaks down too easily. But last year Consumer Reports rated Walmart's el cheapo visco topper very highly. Tempurpedic rated one of the worst on fumes. Caveat: Walmart nickel and dimes suppliers out of business (JMO) so no assurance who making it now. |
Re: Dissecting my Sealy Fenway mattress bought at CostCo 4 years ago: Lousy soft foam inside!
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jimsocal wrote: centralpark, no offense intended, but I can't understand why you would even consider keeping this mattress after seeing what was inside mine and reading this forum. I guarantee you that even if your's is a better model, it will still be full of cheap crappy foam. This is apparent from your saying how it is already a little compressed in the center. Unless you want to open it up and build your own mattress as I am doing (a valid strategy, since the springs do seem to be fine), why would you even consider keeping it, especiallly with CostCo's great return policy? Jim, Right now, I'm not sure whether I'll end up keeping this mattress or at some point dissecting it when the foam is unsupportive/uncomfortable or returning the mattress and buying a better mattress with latex. I'm really tired of mattress shopping at this point. I've been to most of the local stores, and it's all the same 'ol stuff with the PU foams. There is one local manufacturer that I want to check out to see what they do, however, I believe they use PU foam. So my mind is open to buying a mattress that can be made with traditional springs and latex for the comfort layers or buying a mattress that doesn't have much foam and adding my own topper to it. But meanwhile, I need something to sleep on. Costco will allow a return at any time, thank goodness! I'm glad that I've got options in mind for a mattress, but right now I need a break from mattress shopping. For the time-being, I'm trying to learn more about latex foams (I don't want to make a rushed decision). For your mattress, perhaps you can buy a good mattress pad to put over the mattress. The mattress pad will help protect the exposed foam better than sheets, and many mattress pads are made to fit deeper mattresses. |
Re: Dissecting my Sealy Fenway mattress bought at CostCo 4 years ago: Lousy soft foam inside!
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centralpark wrote: Jim, Right now, I'm not sure whether I'll end up keeping this mattress or at some point dissecting it when the foam is unsupportive/uncomfortable or returning the mattress and buying a better mattress with latex. I'm really tired of mattress shopping at this point. I've been to most of the local stores, and it's all the same 'ol stuff with the PU foams. There is one local manufacturer that I want to check out to see what they do, however, I believe they use PU foam. So my mind is open to buying a mattress that can be made with traditional springs and latex for the comfort layers or buying a mattress that doesn't have much foam and adding my own topper to it. But meanwhile, I need something to sleep on. Costco will allow a return at any time, thank goodness! I'm glad that I've got options in mind for a mattress, but right now I need a break from mattress shopping. For the time-being, I'm trying to learn more about latex foams (I don't want to make a rushed decision). For your mattress, perhaps you can buy a good mattress pad to put over the mattress. The mattress pad will help protect the exposed foam better than sheets, and many mattress pads are made to fit deeper mattresses. Oh, okay, I see what you're up to, now. If I were you I would really consider keeping that Sealy, and opening it up like I did and start experimenting with foam on top of those springs. While it may SEEM foolish to tear open a new mattress, really it isn't. For the price of the CostCo Sealy it does have a good outer shell and decent springs and basically with a little HR and or latex foam you can create a mattress that would probably sell for $1500-2500 for much less AND one that will last 10-15 years at least AND one that is easy to adjust as changes may occur in your body. If you live in a big city look in the yellow pages or even Business yellow pages for a foam supplier - some warehouses will sell to the public even though they're not really supposed to I don't think. That's what we have here. So we get great prices on HR foam which is rated for 15 years (Carpenter Qualux) in 4 different densities. If you - or anyone else - goes this route of opening up their mattress, let me tell you that at least with the Sealy this was extremely easy and user-friendly to do. We just guessed that if we took off that ribbed seam at the top, it would open up well, and we were right. Once we got it started the whole rest of it came off just by grabbing hold of the round seam (the "ribbing" maybe it's called?) and pulling on it. I really think HR is a good way to go for core layers - just like Tempurpedic uses something like an HR foam for their core layer, and some latex mattress manufacturers also use it for the 4-5" core. I'm not sure, maybe a latex core is better, ultimately - but I'm not really sure of that. The advantage of buying HR foam is that it's cheap enough to buy a bunch of [1/3 length of bed] x [width of bed] x 1" pieces which allows for maximum experimentation of firmnesses in 3 zones. My wife was happy with her mattress right away after I chose a configuration for her's with the HR foam and a 3/4" visco topper. I still have not found a great combination for me, yet, due to the fact my back has been killing me ever since the day we bought the foam, dissected the mattresses, put the old foam away, etc. - I overworked and tweaked my back out of shape that day! ;-( But at least I have all the foam to work with to play around with it, until I do figure out what the right combination of ild's are for my 3 zones. If I can get this to work for me with my bad back, then ANYone can create their perfect mattress this way! |
Re: Dissecting my Sealy Fenway mattress bought at CostCo 4 years ago: Lousy soft foam inside!
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jimsocal, I just looked in my yellow pages and found three stores who sell HR foam in custom sizes and densities. One of them is my mattress shop. I might see if this is the way to go even as the top layer within my mattress over my latex and 3/4 HR 55 ILD base. I was thinking a medium density HR foam layer over the 32 or 44 ILD latex and PU base, if I can get it in 1". If I have to go with 2" then I would have to remove a layer of latex and thinner PU foam base. Or try to figure something out...maybe use it as a topper as LONG as it doesn't have that squishy, sinking-in feeling that latex and memory foam have, By the way, would a 1 or 2" medium soft density of HR PU foam feel a lot more stable than the cheaper lower density foams you can buy, including eggcrate types? Those seem okay for awhile and then they begin to compress and stay that way. Would a higher density type tend to keep its shape longer? jimsocal wrote: Oh, okay, I see what you're up to, now.<BR><BR>If I were you I would really consider keeping that Sealy, and opening it up like I did and start experimenting with foam on top of those springs. While it may SEEM foolish to tear open a new mattress, really it isn't. For the price of the CostCo Sealy it does have a good outer shell and decent springs and basically with a little HR and or latex foam you can create a mattress that would probably sell for $1500-2500 for much less AND one that will last 10-15 years at least AND one that is easy to adjust as changes may occur in your body. <BR><BR>If you live in a big city look in the yellow pages or even Business yellow pages for a foam supplier - some warehouses will sell to the public even though they're not really supposed to I don't think. That's what we have here. So we get great prices on HR foam which is rated for 15 years (Carpenter Qualux) in 4 different densities.<BR><BR>If you - or anyone else - goes this route of opening up their mattress, let me tell you that at least with the Sealy this was extremely easy and user-friendly to do. We just guessed that if we took off that ribbed seam at the top, it would open up well, and we were right. Once we got it started the whole rest of it came off just by grabbing hold of the round seam (the "ribbing" maybe it's called?) and pulling on it.<BR><BR>I really think HR is a good way to go for core layers - just like Tempurpedic uses something like an HR foam for their core layer, and some latex mattress manufacturers also use it for the 4-5" core. I'm not sure, maybe a latex core is better, ultimately - but I'm not really sure of that.<BR><BR>The advantage of buying HR foam is that it's cheap enough to buy a bunch of [1/3 length of bed] x [width of bed] x 1" pieces which allows for maximum experimentation of firmnesses in 3 zones.<BR><BR>My wife was happy with her mattress right away after I chose a configuration for her's with the HR foam and a 3/4" visco topper. <BR><BR>I still have not found a great combination for me, yet, due to the fact my back has been killing me ever since the day we bought the foam, dissected the mattresses, put the old foam away, etc. - I overworked and tweaked my back out of shape that day! ;-(<BR><BR>But at least I have all the foam to work with to play around with it, until I do figure out what the right combination of ild's are for my 3 zones. <BR><BR>If I can get this to work for me with my bad back, then ANYone can create their perfect mattress this way! |
Re: Dissecting my Sealy Fenway mattress bought at CostCo 4 years ago: Lousy soft foam inside!
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BeddyBye wrote: jimsocal, I just looked in my yellow pages and found three stores who sell HR foam in custom sizes and densities. One of them is my mattress shop. I might see if this is the way to go even as the top layer within my mattress over my latex and 3/4 HR 55 ILD base. I was thinking a medium density HR foam layer over the 32 or 44 ILD latex and PU base, if I can get it in 1". If I have to go with 2" then I would have to remove a layer of latex and thinner PU foam base. Or try to figure something out...maybe use it as a topper as LONG as it doesn't have that squishy, sinking-in feeling that latex and memory foam have, By the way, would a 1 or 2" medium soft density of HR PU foam feel a lot more stable than the cheaper lower density foams you can buy, including eggcrate types? Those seem okay for awhile and then they begin to compress and stay that way. Would a higher density type tend to keep its shape longer? BeddyBye, unfortunately I have never bought any low ILD HR foam! The lowest I have bought is 32ILD and it is a nice medium feel for me; not too soft and not too hard. The 42ILD is quite firm as a base (over 1/2" of 52ILD which is flexible but still very hard). I honestly do not know how the HR foam would be for a soft topper. Now that you mention it, I don't know why I did not buy a couple pieces. I guess because I knew I had some soft latex and soft memory foam and super soft junk that was in the Sealy and a couple of egg crate cheap PU toppers. So I just didn't figure I needed more soft stuff right now. As to HR foam itself, what I have read is that it is rated to last 15 years. The kind I got - though I do not know for sure - I am pretty sure is made by Carpenter and is called Qualux. I assume this because it was designated "Q31", "Q41", "Q51" etc. . When I researched this on the web I found that it referred to Carpenter Qualux high resiliency foam. One site says this: "QUALUX This foam is specially formulated to have a high resilience and life. It is used in commercial and residential areas. This product is considered the best on the market. Has a C117 fire rating." There are, however, other high quality HR foams. I also found this at http://www.foamsource.com/: "Custom Foam Featuring High Density: Medium and Low also available The FoamSource is proud to offer fully customizable cushions for any use: RV, Boat, Sofa, Packaging or any other purpose you can think of. We also custom cut! Conventional foams, especially those having a density of 1.8 or greater, have adequately satisfied the usual requirements for most furniture and bedding applications. That is why they are called conventional. However, if greater comfort and durability under high stress conditions is required, upgraded foams are necessary. Fundamentally different from conventional foam, High Density foam (Our Qualux series) has a unique high resiliency chemistry that sets new standards and defies the old principles of conventional foam ideology. It has a softer surface, greater comfort and support, greater resiliency and better fatigue resistance than conventional foams of comparable density. We stock several variations of Qualux High Density foam: Q16 Soft - density rating of: 2 with an ILD rating of 16 Q26 Medium - density rating of: 2.8 with an ILD rating of 26 Q35 Medium Firm - density rating of 2.6 with an ILD rating of 35 Q41 Firm - density rating of: 2.8 with an ILD rating of 41 Q61 Extra firm - density rating of: 2.8 with an ILD rating of 61" ******************************************************************************************* Let me know how you like the softer ILD of HR foam if you buy some. Also, it might be worth your while to find, not a store, but a Distributor of foam. If your local city has a Business-to-Business phone book or if you have a listing of foam distributor or maybe a furniture manufacturer in your area. It might be worth the extra time to find a place like we found that will cut and sell us whatever we want. This might be a special case, but our place does not charge us for cutting the foam at all and their prices are way lower than any I've seen on the net. If only they had latex... (Actually they can get Talalay, but not Dunlop!) |
Re: Dissecting my Sealy Fenway mattress bought at CostCo 4 years ago: Lousy soft foam inside!
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Unlike latex and memory foam HR foam is easy to find in thicknesses of 1/2" or 1" so it's easy to build on. I have some 1/2" HR foam that I picked up at Joanne's. I'm not really sure what the ILD is. Feels medium-firm. You can use it as a topper. It has more body than the average low-density egg crate type foam topper because it's a denser foam. Right now I have it under my memory foam topper where I have inserted the carpet remnant sheets, to provide additional padding there. I also have a folded over piece inside a travel pillow case that I tuck under my waist to give me more support in the lumbar region. If you wanted to experiement you could pick some up at Joanne's. It's 50% off just about every other week. The downside is that it only comes in 24" wide lengths, but you can buy a yard or two and just tuck it directly under the spot you sleep in to see how it works out and you've only spent a few bucks. I'm narrow and don't move around much, so it works for me just fine, but if you like the feel you can take it to a foam store and ask them to match the ILD in a mattress-size piece. |
Re: Dissecting my Sealy Fenway mattress bought at CostCo 4 years ago: Lousy soft foam inside!
| Cloud 9, I have allergies to polyurethane so I can't have HRFoam but I envy those without allergies than can have almost any type of foam if it is comfortable for them. I also envy those not allergic to the outgassing of memory foam since it does feel comfortable but my throat tightens up and I can't breath so I can't have it on my bed. But thank you for letting others know. We will all share and learn from one another. |
Re: Dissecting my Sealy Fenway mattress bought at CostCo 4 years ago: Lousy soft foam inside!
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Lynn2006 wrote: Cloud 9, I have allergies to polyurethane so I can't have HRFoam but I envy those without allergies than can have almost any type of foam if it is comfortable for them. I also envy those not allergic to the outgassing of memory foam since it does feel comfortable but my throat tightens up and I can't breath so I can't have it on my bed. But thank you for letting others know. We will all share and learn from one another.
Ironically enough, although I wasn't terribly bothered by the smell of my memory foam toppers, the scent of LI's Taletech latex really got to me. I just couldn't seem to get the smell to go away. The more trouble I had sleeping on the mattress the more the smell bothered me. In fact it kind of made me nauseous! For weeks after I returned the mattress I would walk into the house and catch whiffs of it. It seems to be everywhere. After receiving the Brylane topper which only smells like the plastic bag, I'm more convinced than ever the smell is added to the latex and not the natural scent. Are you listening LI? Tone it down! |