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Re: Simmons BackGuard - Phoenix
Dec 8, 2010 4:25 PM
There is no doubt in my mind that you will need a thicker topper. 3" may not be enough by itself but with what you have you would still be able to "adjust" it in increments which is why I believe 3" would be best. A 1" adjustment with known and appropriate materials can sometimes make a huge difference. In other cases it could make very little.

Putting all the layers you have on the futon would also give some valuable feedback as this would be ... or should be ... different from your mattress. I am still "very aware" of he affect that the foam on top of your mattress may be having on your results and I do believe that it is a total of 1 3/8 inches which is certainly enough to make a difference in alignment ... and perhaps even support issues ... for...

Re: Simmons BackGuard - Phoenix
Dec 7, 2010 12:39 PM
There is no doubt in my mind (with the limited testing we were able to do with the materials you have) that YES your mattress is both too soft and too hard although it is a little more than just ILD as well. I also have no doubt that the materials you have in any combination will not be suitable and we have gained about as much information from using them in different combinations as we can. I would just use them as best you can for now until you are able to take the next step which is when we can actually move towards fixing the "issues".

It sounds like it been quite a journey for you but at least now I would have some hope that you can make some real improvements.

Phoenix

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Re: Simmons BackGuard - Phoenix
Dec 6, 2010 6:02 PM
IMO, 36 would be too firm.

And the guy that told you 2" of 21 would be enough on a very hard mattress was IMO blowing smoke. It wouldn't even be enough for my other half and she weighs 125 (laughing).

Srange ... a few days ago the guy from Laurier told me they had 19 and 40. The price is OK for a king though (assuming he meant the one with a cover).

And I wouldn't get an inch of Talalay.  Thinner layers added together aren't the same as one thicker layer and with not really knowing what the other two pieces really are you'd be a lot safer going with 3" of a known quantity. I suspect you might even need a little more than this in which case the other two you have would come in handy.

Phoenix

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Re: Simmons BackGuard - Phoenix
Dec 6, 2010 12:02 PM
Interesting.

With the thinness of the toppers you have now, it's probable that stomach and back sleeping would give you the best alignment. It certainly isn't suitable yet for side sleeping (as you know :)) The cracking you are talking about could be your back "coming back" into alignment similar to a chiropractor's adjustment who does something similar (cracks you with your leg lifted) in certain circumstances. I have noticed the same thing when my back is "on the edge". It can also happen to me when I shift weight from one leg to another and sort of "relax my hip outward".

I really doubt that the underlying mattress will ever be suitable for side sleeping even at a much lower weight. It wasn't designed that way which is part of the reason it is more suitable as a base than the old one was. Thinner...

Re: Simmons BackGuard - Phoenix
Dec 5, 2010 6:55 PM
Ok,  I've reviewed the entire thread from the beginning and assuming that nothing changes based on how you sleep tonight, here are my thoughts.

This thread has been particularly challenging because we have been working with only thin layers and not enough material or known quantities to make it likely we could even find a solution with what you have. Thin layers also act differently from thicker layers and predicting the effect of thicker layers (which I believe you need) by extrapolating what happens with thinner unknown quantities is very difficult. Even this is compounded with the polyfoam on top of the bed which is certainly thinner but still a little too much for my liking. It could still cause enough hammocking to cause a problem in your case given your sensitivity and weight. It's also difficult to tell which part of the pain and/or improvement you have...

Re: Simmons BackGuard - ZZZZ
Dec 8, 2010 3:11 PM
Just went through another miserable short night and long, painful day. Picked up a used futon sofa for 150$ that I put in the basement. It's about 10 years old, but it's quite clean. Just tried it for one hour and although it's still too firm to be comfortable, it feels straighter and slightly softer than my new Beautyrest, with 3 inches of foam on top. Will give it a try tonight. It can't be a long term solution (too narrow to sleep in any position other than my side and too short to spread my legs completely) but I'm curious to see how my back will feel tomorrow.

Got my complete radiology report today and found out I have sacralization of the L5, a transitional vertebra at the lumbo-sacral and degenerative retrolisthesis at L4-L5. I now realize I have no choice but either get a 3 inches topper or get...

Re: Simmons BackGuard - ZZZZ
Dec 7, 2010 12:27 PM
Not getting any better today. I just spoke with a chiropractor and the told me that lower back pain + sore shoulders almost always equate not enough support due to hammocking. I do feel that my butt goes down more than my shoulders and I noticed that the sides of the pillowtop curl up a bit when I'm in it but I still have pressure point issues. Could it be that my setup is at the same time a little too hard (pressure points) AND a little too soft (not enough support)?

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Re: Simmons BackGuard - ZZZZ
Dec 6, 2010 3:41 PM
Got a hold of Literie Laurier today. Turns out they only have 36 ILD toppers. The 3 inches is 439$ and the 2.5 inches is 399$. Both prices are with taxes included. Wouldn't 36 be too firm?

I contacted another merchant who has quoted me 2 inches of natural talalay 21 ILD topper for 399$ (before taxes). They told me it’s all I would need to sleep on top of a very hard mattress, even at my weight. They invited me to come give it a try but it’s a 2.5 hours’ drive and it does seems rather expensive.

At this point, I want to wait before making another move, at the very least until my back has recovered a bit more to be able to discern the difference between what’s...

Re: Simmons BackGuard - ZZZZ
Dec 6, 2010 5:07 AM
Thank you Pheonix.

Without the egg crate, the bed didn't feel that much different. Pressure was felt from upper thigh to shoulder, with an emphasis on shoulder and upper part of rib cage. I still managed to get a decent night of sleep, just had to toss and turn a little more to deal with shoulder numbness. I have tried different pillows and will continue to do so. Bed isn't quite as comfortable on my back as it was with the egg crate but still passable. Very comfortable on my stomach (with only one pillow) but something strange is happening when I take this position: whenever I lift a leg sideway (a bit like a frog) and up, I hear and feel some cracking in my spine, just like when you crack your fingers. Can't say it's very painful but it's weird...

Latex topper or build a Pranasleep Vinyasa? - kiretc
Dec 7, 2010 6:29 PM
My spouse and I have a  Simmons Beautyrest Beecher Village/Anthem Super Pillowtop which is in good condition but has very firm coils.  We're both side-sleepers, 6' / 170lbs and 5'4" / 190lbs, and prefer softer sleeping surfaces.  Since our innerspring is so firm we end up tossing and turning at night, then wake up tired with sore hips and backs.  We tried out a number of mattresses and both like the Pranasleep Vinyasa 3 Super Plush latex mattress, but are hesitant on spending that much on a mattress. 

The Vinyasa has a 7" latex core and two 1" talalay layers (10 ILD?) on top.   Do you think we can mimic the Vinyasa with just a topper on our current mattress or by building a completely new mattress with an online vendor such as sleepez.com or flobeds.com

I'm concerned we'd need multiple toppers...

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