Background info:

Currently we have a very firm queen sized spring mattress with minimum padding, and a 2" 32 ILD talalay latex topper.  We are finally ready to upgrade and are looking for a king sized mattress, or 2 twin xls.  I'm not too thrilled with spring mattresses ( my previous bed was a think cotton futon with a foam core).  We are looking at getting a latex bed.

me:  5'6", 140 pounds, side sleeper, issues with mid and lower back pain, pressure pain on the side

hubby:  6'4", 260 pounds, side and stomach sleeper, low back pain, pressure pain on the side

I find the 32 ILD topper to be a little too firm.  While it provides some cushioning, for the most part I float on top of it.  Hubby sinks into it, causing me to roll toward him.  He also says the topper feels a little "bouncy".

 

Talked to Sleepez, was told about their 8" special, and here's what they suggested for a split configuration: 

Topper:  for both me and him 2" soft, 20 ILD

my side:  3" medium (32 ILD), 3" firm ( 38 ILD)

his side:  3" firm (38 ILD), 3" X firm (44 ILD)

They said the 100% natural Dunlop is firmer than Talalay, and Dunlop will support hubby better, although I may prefer the more plush feel of Talalay.  The price is the same for either type.  I have never slept on a Dunlop mattress so I have nothing to compare it against.  I do like the feel of the Talalay topper we have and like the "plush" feel of it.

One of my concerns is to have enough support for my husband so he does not bottom out or excessively curve his spine.  Would Dunlop be a better choice than Talalay?

Is he going to feel more "bouncy" on a Dunlop than a talalay? 

Does Dunlop last as long as talalay?

Can we do a combination of Dunlop and talalay?  BTW the Dunlop and Talalay layers are of slightly different height so if we do this we have to make sure the number of Dunlop and talalay pieces are the same on either side.

Will the 20 ILD topper be too soft for us?

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

A few ideas that may help you (gathered from many people who have been around for a long time and validated in my own mattress testing) ...

 

First of all the difference in feel between Talalay and Dunlop.

Talalay is more "airy" and Dunlop is more "dense". Think of angel food cake vs sponge cake. He might feel it is more bouncy because with a firmer topper, the lower layers of the mattress will have a more gradually rounded curve pressing on them from his body and there may be more springs pushing back at him than if he was compressing the springs with a "sharper" curve. He may in other words be describing a "feel" that comes from the springs but is enhanced by the topper.

Each person will feel the difference differently (depending on weight, weight distribution, body type, and sensitivity). While it seems that most people prefer Talalay, there are also many who prefer Dunlop.

If you take a slightly firmer piece of Talalay it will feel similar to slightly softer Dunlop. If you were to lay on both and you didn't know which one you were on, the difference would be subtle and many people couldn't tell (again assuming the same "softness" which means the comparison would be between a slightly lower ILD piece of Dunlop and a slightly higher ILD piece of Talalay)

Dunlop is not as consistent in terms of it's ILD meaning that it is usually sold as an ILD range whereas Talalay can be manufactured to a more specific density. Dunlop will also usually have a slightly firmer side and a slightly softer side because of how it's manufactured (the latex will settle a bit towards the bottom) and talalay will usually feel the same on both sides (unless it's manufactured to be different on both sides).

Most (but not all) of the blended Talalay coming from Latex International should now be 6" not 5.6" anymore. This is because most of their production is with new machinery. This will depend to some degree on which of their factories make it. This would mean that blended Talalay cores could be the same size as the Dunlop cores. All of the natural Talalay cores (more expensive) are 6" ... same as the Dunlop.

The general consensus is that with the exception of the lighter ILD all natural Talalay, Talalay and Dunlop should last about the same time. The Dunlop method of turning rubber into a foam has been around a lot longer so when you read the stories about the old Sears mattresses that have been used for 20, 30, 40 years, they are talking about Dunlop.

 

About the difference in sizing between you and your husband.

In general terms the top few inches of a mattress are about comfort and pressure issues (numbness and tingling would be a symptom of a pressure issue) and the middle and bottom layers are about support issues (typical symptom would be back pain) although a mattress that is too hard on the top for a particular person (think of sleeping on a floor) can also cause spinal misalignment and back pain.

Since you are so much lighter than your husband, you will not sink into a mattress nearly as much as he will (weight distribution and general body makeup plays a part here too so I am talking in general terms) so the top 6" or so will be the most important to you while the bottom layer will probably be much more important to your husband. In other words, you will not likely feel too much difference between different bottom layers while he will likely feel a greater difference (again this would depend to some degree on different body types).

Part of what would be the comfort layer for your husband may be the support layer for you (the point at which each of your bodies mainly stop compressing the mattress may be in a different layer).

This even leads to the possibility that the same layering scheme may be perfect for both of you (don't mean it would be but it could be). This turns out to be the case between my SO and me even though I weigh much more.

I would also pay attention to the transition between layers because if you go through very soft top layers and the support layer is much firmer, the pressure issues could come from the transition and not from the top layer itself. I personally prefer more gradual transitions for example. In your case, you may want a more gradual transition between the top and middle layer (the two layers most important to you) while your husband may like a more gradual transition between the middle and bottom layer (if he goes through the top two layers too much).

 

About the different sleeping positions.

Again in general terms ...

Stomach sleeping needs firmest (to stop the spine from hyperextending it's natural curve)

Back sleeping needs less firm (to allow the bum and mid back to sink in enough so that the small of the back is supported)

Side sleeping needs softest (to allow the shoulders and hips to sink in enough so that the spine is straight)

The biggest challenge is with stomach sleepers because if they also sleep on their sides, they are at both extremes of the range.

While a pillow is always an important factor in the actual comfort and perceived comfort of your mattress, it is especially important with a stomach sleeper. If a pillow lifts a stomach sleepers head too high, it can accentuate the hyperextension of the spine and cause back issues. Sometimes a problem with a pillow can be perceived as a problem with a mattress.

 

Most important of all.

Go and lay on a bunch of mattresses ... lots of them ... preferably latex mattress that you know their makeup (ask the salesperson). Bring a pillow (or two or three of different softness and thickness) with you.

Try to find a place that can "customize" a mattress with different layers of latex so you can get a sense of what the different combinations feel like.

If you can't find mattresses that are all latex, at least find mostly latex and find out the stats (ILD or softness) of the poly layers on the top as this can help you as well. Simmons, Serta, and Sealy all have mattresses that are "mostly" latex. See if you can find them to try out to get ideas on what you like. The one with the "most" latex (in the big 3) is the simmons natural response elite (Pikes peak and other names such as Gannet peak etc in different places). Serta has their "pure response" and "vera wang" lines that have a lot of latex and Sealy has their "embody" line (the cores are not latex but the top is unless you're in Canada apparently) and, if you can find them still (they've been replaced), their "spring free" line or the Stearns and Foster versions. King Koil and other manufacturers also have mostly latex. Ask at the store you're going to or phone them before you go to see if they have any latex core mattresses. Don't worry about the price of the mattress you lay on as you're only looking to gather information so you will be able to "duplicate it" for much less.

Find out if you tend (in the "initial feel" and comfort of the mattress) towards either a firm, plush, eurotop, pillowtop, or super pillowtop (in feel and comfort I mean, not support ..... I'm not advocating thick layers of poly on top of a mattress here). You can tell this fairly quickly when you lay on a mattress. You are looking here for initial pressure issues not support.

Find out what you need for support and deeper pressure issues (this takes laying on a mattress for at least 15 minutes or so). When you are on your side, have your husband (or him for you) try to slide his hand under your waist to see if it is supported or if there is "air" there (it should be difficult to slide your hand under if it is supported). Do the same when you are laying on your back (have him try to slide his hand under the small of your back)

Have a look from the side to see if the spine is straight (bring a yardstick for reference if you need to) when you are both on your side. This will tell you a lot about how the layers fit you (whether you need more pushing up in certain areas or more sinking in certain areas). Too soft in the middle layers will cause a sinking in too far and too hard will not allow you to sink in enough in the areas that "stick out" like the hips and shoulder.

Make sure your husband pays attention to even a slight feeling of hyperextending his spine when he is laying on his stomach. If he can feel it in 15 minutes, he will feel it even more over a longer time.

Also try to find a mattress with a harder layer on top of a softer layer as this also has a different feel and will affect where the support in the mattress is most needed. This could be important for your husband as well with his stomach and side sleeping.

Narrow it down a bit first by feel and then take notes about the feel and the makeup of the mattresses that had the feel and support that seemed to be close to what you each liked.

 

Finally

I know this sounds really complicated but try to make it fun. Spend a few hours in the mattress stores pretending you're going to buy a mattress with "cost no object". The salespeople will love you! The research is worth it as you will have the mattress for a long time.

Remember it's easier to soften up a harder mattress than it is to firm up a softer one.

Read through some of the great information on this forum about how different people solved issues similar to yours. There is lots of it here and in the legacy forum which is here http://legacy.whatsthebest-mattress.com

If you can't find an answer to a question you have in the forum, ask questions. There are a lot of very knowledgeable people here that may have similar issues and needs to you that have already paved the way.

If you each end up knowing absolutely what you want ... that's a bonus. If you find that your layering needs are really different, then you will need to do a side to side customization (which means buying from a manufacturer or a make your own outlet that will do that). In any case you will probably have a pretty clear idea of what you like and need and come close to your final configuration ... and maybe only need one layer exchange to get it right.

In the end it will be worth it .... at least if you like sleeping as much as I do.

 

Phoenix

 

Just to add a couple of ideas here that could make a difference in fine tuning ... (for those that are so inclined)

 

In general, the heavier you are the softer a particular ILD will feel to you. This of course will also be affected by your own particular makeup and what you are used to sleeping on. It's always amazing to me that what one person calls way too soft another will call the hardest mattress they have ever slept on (If you want proof of this, just read through all 186 posts in the Costco thread here http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/new-natural-latex-beds-sale-now-costco/7639-A-1.html ). I have a hard time believing that anyone would sleep on a mattress with a top layer of 32 or even firmer and yet others wouldn't believe how someone could sleep on a top layer of 16.

 

Thinner layers stacked together generally feel a little softer than one thick layer of the same ILD. In other words 2 three inch layers will feel a little softer and could have different support characteristics than a single 6" layer.

Three 1" layers will generally feel softer than one 3" layer. This could mean that you "go through" the top layer and into the next one more easily which completely changes the feel of the bed (this is what happened to me with the sawgrass even though it had 3" on top)

 

This is where some of the custom manufacturers excel. Many of them have a lot of experience working with different thicknesses and the different feels that come from this as opposed to only working with either 3" or 2" layers. This can make a difference in my experience (played with this a lot in my "lay on bed" testing). They can be especially helpful with this if you have done a lot of "lay on bed" testing and have made notes of how you felt with different layering schemes. The more information you bring to the people who you buy from ... the more they can help you.

 

This could mean that a 3" layer on top of a 6" core could actually work out better and be more supportive or comfortable than a 3" layer on top of two 3" cores

2" of soft on top of 3" of a little firmer could feel or support differently for some people than 3" on top of 3".

3" of softer on top of 3" medium on top of something else could feel different than 3" of softer on top of 4" of medium on top of something else

1" of firmer on top of 2" of softer on top of 3" of firmer could feel different than 3" of softer on top of 3" of firmer

1" or 2" as a transition layer between 2 other layers could work out better than a 3" layer as a transition between 2 other layers. Same with a 4" transition layer.

And on it goes

 

When I first talked with the company who made my bed, I asked for a quote for 9" (so I could compare with other 9" models I had looked at on a fair basis) and the initial makeup with this would have been 2.5 over 4 over 2.5 two sided without latex in the quilting. We changed it later to what it finally became although it cost a little more. This means that they can also customize the price in ways that won't make so much difference although some won't go into that level (1/2 inch refinements) of "fine tuning".

A custom manufacturer should also have more experience with different quilting patterns and materials in the ticking which can also make a difference in the feel (and of course the price). They will also (and in my case did) make other adjustments (made part of my bed a little tighter for example because they knew it was going on an adjustable bed and that the material could stretch a little more in some places) depending on your personal circumstances.

 

It's worth talking to several people if you have questions that you aren't yet completely satisfied with the answers you have received .... before you get to your final destination. In reading this forum and the legacy forum, I often wonder if some of those who couldn't make any latex configuration fit could have had their perfect bed if they could have added thicker or thinner layers to their layering scheme or different quilting or materials to their mix. While most seem to get to a 90% place with basic layering some never got to a place that they were comfortable even keeping their bed.

The downside of course is that if you get it wrong with a custom built "manufactured" bed that isn't designed to do a layer exchange, then it is horrendously expensive to ship it back and have it "re-made", no matter how much you saved or how "perfect" you thought it would be. No matter which direction you go you lose something and gain something else. In a perfect world, we would all have a custom manufacturer as our next door neighbor.

In the end we all need to decide for ourselves what is more important, how sensitive we are to "mistakes", and how close we want to get to 100%.

The most surprising thing to me in my research journey was how many real choices there are out there.

 

Phoenix