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Since there have been other threads about allergies to latex, I'll get right to the point. I've tested nonreactive to latex in allergy panels, and never had any problems in any of the stores when I was shopping, such as Savvy Rest. So when it came time to buy, we bought a non-returnable 100% natural rubber latex foam bed at the nearest dealer -- a store about 2 hours away. It has an organic cotton and wool cover, and was rather pricey, but certainly competitive with internet prices for similar products. I rate it high for comfort. However, as soon as the bed came into the house in late October I started getting sick. By early November, I got a cold/sinus infection that lasted nearly 2 months. My doctor thought the problem could be mold, and after checking that out thoroughly with numerous medical expenses, I gave away porous possessions, threw out papers and books, etc. and started to improve. But every morning I awakened with a sinus headache and congestion. I wasn't willing to throw out the bed, as my house had never had a major mold problem (just a few spots in the basement) and the bed was new. So we did the following experiment. After determining that I could sleep without symptoms on some 1970's foam cushions on the kitchen floor, last night we took the latex pads out of the cover and put them on the kitchen floor underneath a clean cotton sleep. I woke up significantly worse than I've ever been. My husband, who is not chemically sensitive, said that the latex foam had a strong odor when he took it out on the porch to air it in the sun. So, if natrual rubber latex is supposed to be
what am I reacting to? Any way I could find out whether it is some kind of preservative or chemical used in the processing, or some contaminant from storage in the warehouse? Just in case I developed a latex allergy from continuous exposure for the last 8 months, I was retested today with RAST for IgG and IgM reactions to latex. Meanwhile, is there any market for a very clean, slightly used natural rubber latex bed and if so, how would I find it? Or do you think I could make a case for returning the bed? JanisB
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Mostly because the majority of latex gloves are 'powdered' which release latex dust particles into the air which increases sensitivity to the allergy because you are essentially inhaling the protein directly. There are other chemicals used in processing gloves which are not used in processing natural rubber foam which are what usually cause the skin irritation in sensitive individuals. This is precisely why some individuals that are in the medical field that have developed major skin sensitivity to latex gloves can usually handle raw rubber foam or even liquid hevea milk and not have the same dermatological issues. The real natural rubber allergy is when people develop breathing problems, and potential anaphylactic conditions. This sounds like what 'might' be happening to the OP...this is not because of chemicals in the latex, or off-gassing, this is because of the protein itself. Not saying it isn't bad but we need to be factual about what may be causing the issue...life isn't fair :( "Type I (Immediate) Hypersensitivity. This is an IgE antibody mediated reaction to some of the protein antigen inherent in the latex. These reactions typically cause urticaria, angioedema, rhinitis, conjunctivitis, bronchospasm, asthma and, rarely, anaphylaxis. Affected persons must eliminate latex exposure altogether.(6) Although the amount of exposure needed to cause sensitization or symptoms is not known, exposures at even very low levels can trigger allergic reactions in some sensitized individuals. A common factor in anaphylactic episodes is exposure of mucosal tissues to latex--a situation inherent in dentistry.(7) The potential for a life-threatening anaphylactic reaction underscores the importance of recognizing Type I immediate reactions. " On the chart this is listed as less than 1% of general population. The chart says 7~18% of general population can react to type IV 'sensitivities' which is caused by the chemicals used in processing gloves. Continued exposure to this overtime has the potential of leading to a real rubber allergy particularly when powdered gloves are being used as they increase sensitivity overtime. "Type IV (Delayed) Hypersensitivity. Allergic Contact (Chemical Sensitivity) Dermatitis results from exposure to chemicals added to latex during harvesting, processing or manufacturing. Latex glove products utilize coagulants, accelerators, antioxidants, emulsifiers, stabilizers, extenders, colorants, stiffeners, biocides, fragrances, etc.(4) These chemicals can cause skin reactions similar to those caused by poison ivy. As with poison ivy, the rash usually begins 24 to 48 hours after contact, and may progress to oozing skin blisters or may spread away from the area of skin touched by the latex. This contact urticaria may represent a transitional stage in a progression between contact dermatitis and immediate hypersensitivity. Some patients initially develop delayed-type contact dermatitis, then urticaria, and finally (months to years later) systemic immediate hypersensitivity.(5) " |
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Well, from what i've read, most "powdered" latex gloves are powdered with cornstarch. So I do not see how this could or would increase the release of latex dust particles.... Thank you, though, Budgy! Your posts are always informative and you are a tremendous asset to this forum. We are interested in the truth here, indeed! |
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weewillywinky wrote: Well, from what i've read, most "powdered" latex gloves are powdered with cornstarch. So I do not see how this could or would increase the release of latex dust particles....
Thank you, though, Budgy! Your posts are always informative and you are a tremendous asset to this forum. We are interested in the truth here, indeed! |
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budgy wrote: Thanks, Budgy! |
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Since I had some issues with the latex samples, I've started researching latex foam and allergies/chemical sensitivities. My background is research and my parents are latex-glove-wearing physicians, so we've been talking a lot about latex lately. Unfortunately a lot of the information I've found online is anecdotal- a person saying their doctor said he's seen several people in the hospital related to latex foam beds, people having various allergy symptoms with their new natural latex mattress, one going to the hospital for anaphalaxis, etc. Here's one snippet from a study I found on pubmed. (journal is Ann Med. 1994 Aug;26(4):297-300.) "Because the natural rubber of the mattresses contains latex allergens, these allergens are a potential source of sensitization and could constitute a risk, at least to allergic individuals."
Then this is one post from a chemist (she says, anyway- http://www.livingreefs.com/members/tankedchemist.html) "So... I would never buy a latex bed. Why? Because you will eventually develop an allergy to latex. Here's the thing that's odd about latex-- natural or synthetic... the longer and more frequently your skin is exposed to it, the more likely you are to develop an allergy.
Then, this is from Savvy's blog, from Michael Penny I believe: "As purity testing shows, even natural latex (and ours is as natural as it gets) is about 95% percent pure rubber. To make the sap into foam, the manufacturing process requires small amounts of sulfur as the primary vulcanization agent, and zinc oxide as an accelerator. These are both natural ingredients. The vulcanization process also requires adding minute amounts of synthetic chemicals. Which ones? Latex manufacturers still regard that information as proprietary and realistically, that probably will not change in the short term. But we can tell you that the presence of the tiny amounts of additives necessary to turn raw sap into supple, comfortable foam is not something to fear. What’s “tiny”? Their volume is referenced in micrograms per cubic meter, which is like a fraction of a grain of sand. More importantly, as you can see in the test results, “volatile organic compounds” (“volatile” means unstable, which means they off-gas) are routinely tested for. Note the designation “ND” for the vast majority, which means: Not Detected. If a manufacturer, salesperson or web site tells you that their latex production process uses zero chemicals, consider this Wikipedia article on vulcanization. As it states, if one tried to make natural latex without using an accelerator, the resulting product would be of poor quality." [emphasis added]
I hope some of this helps. Let us know what your allergy results are. I'm curious whether it's a chemical sensitivity or a latex allergy (for both your case and mine). Ironically I've visited design sleep also and had no problems in the store even though I was there about 2 hours and we opened up the beds, touched the latex, talked with it open, etc. Could be something about their store ventilation though as someone else mentioned. I lay on memory foam beds comfortably in the store even though it seems toxic to me at home.
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What did you get from design sleep btw, the all-latex bed with a 5-6" core (dunlop right?) and a 2" talalay top, in 2 pieces? Did you try each piece separately or just all together? Design sleep isn't 100% natural ingredients and they were upfront about this when I was there, but I doubt any of the other things they use are big enough to be a problem. There was some polyester in the spring pockets, teflon-like coating in the side wall thread for FR, I think non-organic wool (could be wrong- think 'natural' but not organic), etc. But I think you said you didn't feel well on just the latex slabs, so I guess the rest of the bed doesn't matter. |
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cmq2009 wrote: Since I had some issues with the latex samples, I've started researching latex foam and allergies/chemical sensitivities. My background is research and my parents are latex-glove-wearing physicians, so we've been talking a lot about latex lately. Unfortunately a lot of the information I've found online is anecdotal- a person saying their doctor said he's seen several people in the hospital related to latex foam beds, people having various allergy symptoms with their new natural latex mattress, one going to the hospital for anaphalaxis, etc. Here's one snippet from a study I found on pubmed. (journal is Ann Med. 1994 Aug;26(4):297-300.) "Because the natural rubber of the mattresses contains latex allergens, these allergens are a potential source of sensitization and could constitute a risk, at least to allergic individuals."
Then this is one post from a chemist (she says, anyway- http://www.livingreefs.com/members/tankedchemist.html) "So... I would never buy a latex bed. Why? Because you will eventually develop an allergy to latex. Here's the thing that's odd about latex-- natural or synthetic... the longer and more frequently your skin is exposed to it, the more likely you are to develop an allergy.
Then, this is from Savvy's blog, from Michael Penny I believe: "As purity testing shows, even natural latex (and ours is as natural as it gets) is about 95% percent pure rubber. To make the sap into foam, the manufacturing process requires small amounts of sulfur as the primary vulcanization agent, and zinc oxide as an accelerator. These are both natural ingredients. The vulcanization process also requires adding minute amounts of synthetic chemicals. Which ones? Latex manufacturers still regard that information as proprietary and realistically, that probably will not change in the short term. But we can tell you that the presence of the tiny amounts of additives necessary to turn raw sap into supple, comfortable foam is not something to fear. What’s “tiny”? Their volume is referenced in micrograms per cubic meter, which is like a fraction of a grain of sand. More importantly, as you can see in the test results, “volatile organic compounds” (“volatile” means unstable, which means they off-gas) are routinely tested for. Note the designation “ND” for the vast majority, which means: Not Detected. If a manufacturer, salesperson or web site tells you that their latex production process uses zero chemicals, consider this Wikipedia article on vulcanization. As it states, if one tried to make natural latex without using an accelerator, the resulting product would be of poor quality." [emphasis added]
I hope some of this helps. Let us know what your allergy results are. I'm curious whether it's a chemical sensitivity or a latex allergy (for both your case and mine). Ironically I've visited design sleep also and had no problems in the store even though I was there about 2 hours and we opened up the beds, touched the latex, talked with it open, etc. Could be something about their store ventilation though as someone else mentioned. I lay on memory foam beds comfortably in the store even though it seems toxic to me at home.
Thank you, CMQ - very informative and important information. Much appreciated! |
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All things in the universe do essentially decay over time...it is true that polymers will 'out-gas' faster than say metallic substances such as steel. Although even metals release molecules into the air...kind of a basic thing of the universe, entropy, diffusion. Although we are talking incredibly small amounts of matter here, I wish someone that was a true specialist could perhaps give us a comparitive example ie: 10 years of sleeping on a natural rubber bed would be equivalent to wearing latex gloves for 30 minutes, or whatever the case may be.
Even in our OP's case (as well as any other I have heard of someone reacting to a natural latex bed) the reactions began basically straight away or within a few days type of thing (delayed hypersensitivity). This message was modified Jun 20, 2011 by budgy
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budgy wrote: All things in the universe do essentially decay over time...it is true that polymers will 'out-gas' faster than say metallic substances such as steel. Although even metals release molecules into the air...kind of a basic thing of the universe, entropy, diffusion. Although we are talking incredibly small amounts of matter here, I wish someone that was a true specialist could perhaps give us a comparitive example ie: 10 years of sleeping on a natural rubber bed would be equivalent to wearing latex gloves for 30 minutes, or whatever the case may be.
Even in our OP's case (as well as any other I have heard of someone reacting to a natural latex bed) the reactions began basically straight away or within a few days type of thing (delayed hypersensitivity). |
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weewillywinky wrote:
one mole is 6.02214×1023 So on the low end of molecular weight (100lbs) you have a normal natural rubber mattress has a mass say equal to one mole (to simplify). My calcutor cannot carry that the number of zeroes required before I even get to the power of 5 yet alone 23. We are talking insanely high numbers here which are hard for me to calculate, but also of that molecular weight there is say 0.1% antigen protein, we are talking 0.1 lbs of the whole bed or 45 grams of antigen. Even with a total of 45 grams being inside the mattress we are talking quadrillions upon quadrillions of molecules that would have to be released.... anyway...you have to take my number with a pinch of salt and a shot of tequila because I am no scientist. But out-gassing occurs in incredibly small quantities of mass compared to being directly absorbed from a material like say skin on skin contact you have with gloves. This is why I am trying to find something that can actually quanitify and objectify these kinds of exposures and say how much of a risk is it really. The other thing with gaseous exposure compared to direct is that diffusion pretty much guarantees in a relatively well ventilated place you will probably not even absorb a significant percentage of the antigens released into the air. This message was modified Jun 20, 2011 by budgy
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