i have a sleepez bed that I keep trying to soften by adding more layers of foam in the case. So I now have 4.5 layers in a case meant for 3 layers. The case still zips, but I wonder if I am compressing the foam so much that it is affecting the feel. I have talalay latex, which always felt springy to me, but I am wondering if this made it more springy? Or if this is bad for the foam? 

Yup, I'd do the same thing as you are suggesting for exactly the same reasons (firm Dunlop under the soft Talalay). The 1" over the 3" would likely be a "little" bit more comforming (thinner layers "act" a little softer) but the difference would likely be slight since they are the same ILD.

Given your feedback ... I'm pretty confident you have the materials you need to get to where you want to go without zoning (and this layering may even be "it") ... even though that would still be an option if it turns out to be neccessary.

Phoenix

Haven't actually switched yet - which is good because now I know for sure that the soft over medium talalay isn't supportive enough. Woke up at 6am today, on my back, feeling like my hips had sunk in way too much. It's odd because it doesn't feel that bad at first. Not sure if I am actually sinking in more as the night goes on or if I just feel it more. Either way, yikes - feels like Tempurpedic (ie not good)! 

So on to the topper config tonite. I assume you would still prefer I keep the medium dunlop rather than medium talalay as the bottom layer? I'd rather use Talalay just because that would give us both only 1 Dunlop per side (so the height will match) but I suspect its better to try dunlop first?

Steve

The back pain from misalignment can take a while to develop so when you first lay on something that is good for pressure relief it can feel good but after a while or through the course of the night your back can start to complain. That's why it's usually best to use the thinnest comfort layers that works for someone ... especially if weight distribution creates a tendency for the hips to sink in much more than the shoulders. This is where a differential construction can be better as well because the firmer middle layer stops the sinking down of the hips better but it may need more comfort thickness or softness so the shoulders can sink in enough. I think this is why so many people find their mattress different from the store once they've slept on it the whole night as well because in the store they may not spend enough time for misalignment issues to create any pain or discomfort. With memory foam it can be from actually sinking in deeper over the night but not so much with latex.

I'd probably try the two dunlop layers first and if that seems to work then to test the Talalay to see if the difference causes any issues. On the bottom ... and depending on the actual difference in ILD between them and how deeply you are sinking into the bottom layer (percentage compression) ... a medium Talalay could work OK as well. If the bottom layer is softer than the middle there will also be a little "pre-compression" just from the weight of what is above it.

Phoenix

So I was just laying in bed thinking "well, this still isn't right" and trying to figure out if its now too hard (because of the new firm dunlop) or too soft (because of the new 1" soft talalar topper). Maybe both?

Laying on my back feels a lot like when I tested 3-6" of foam on the ground. There is some give (maybe too much under my hips) but then it feels like I bottom out. Very firm where its compressed.

On my side I feel like I am making a V at the waist. Also feel more pressure on my ribs then before. Feels like my shoulder needs to sink in more but my ribs need to sink in less? Not sure if this is a sign of too hard or too soft.

But I think for now I will swap the 2 dunlops and go back to a more normal progressive approach (fim on bottom, medium in the middle, soft on top) and see how that works. I thought 4" of soft on top would be too soft but maybe not...

Steve

Hey Steve, been reading this thread and wanted to see if you have any update. 

peclark wrote:

The 4" of soft talalay on top of 3" med dunlop over 3" firm dunlop seems to work pretty well. Still not as cushy as I would like - I am currently trying 1" memory foam and/or 1" wool topper I have - but at least I am sleeping and not waking up too sore. I wish Phoenix were still around to give advice - he was amazing - unfortunately he was banned from posting...

Steve

Steve, could you tell me what the ILD of the talalay and dunlop layers are?  4" of talalay over 6" of dunlop is similar to Natura eco brilliance which I liked in the store. 

I have some dunlop layers I am trying and just can't seem to find right combo.  I have chronic lower back pain and think I need really firm.  Last night I tried two 3" layers of 36 ILD dunlop over a 5" extra firm poly (using only temporarily) and it was obviously very firm.  In morning my lower back felt pretty good buy middle/upper back was sore.  Hard to find that just right combo where either lower or upper back isn't sore in morning.  I have never tested with talalay yet.  I also have a 2"19 ILD dunlop and 3" 31 dunlop I am working with. 

I sleep just find on my couch which is about 4+ inches of very firm foam over springs. 

I tend to think that you should know after one night if combo is working but maybe you do have to have a period of adjustment?  I just know that when I sleep in some hotels with good mattress that I feel great in morning....but that may be plecebo effect too.  Thanks

peclark wrote:

 

All my pieces are sleepez pieces, so soft (22-24 ILD ), medium (30-32 ILD), firm (38-40 ILD). To me talalay medium feels like dunlop soft, even tho its supposedly same ILD. Talalay is good for softening up the top "comfort" layers. If you have pressure point issues, etc. But it doesn't sound like you do. You said it was very firm, but did you like it? I think if thats soft enough for you don't worry about adding talalay or softening the top anymore.

Yes I think it usually takes a few days to know how good or bad a bed really is. Less if its just really terrible for you. More if its close. I've had configs I liked a lot at first that caused bad back problems after a few nights. So yes you should give each config time (like a few nights unless its obviously no good).

One thing Phoenix preached was eliminating layers when testing. So you could try just 1 36ild layer on the extra firm base instead of 2. If you think thats too firm try the 31ild for a few nights. You didn't give weight and sleep positions (I'm guessing stomach?) but 8" of firm foam is probably enough for most people. 

Good luck.

PS - this thread is so long and old that I think a lot of other people might not look at it anymore :-)  You might do better starting a new thread...

Yeah I will keep testing.  You have a talalay medium and dunlop soft also?  But you are sleeping on the talalay soft over medium dunlop over firm dunlop?  I wonder if when you are talking about like 36 ILD and above that talalay and dunlop at the same ILDs feel about the same?  I am male 6"2" and 190.  At this point I am not worried about pressure points, just trying to get a combo that I can wake up without back pain.  I guess I need to be patient.  Thanks

peclark wrote:

Yes, I started with all dunlop and swapped a few layers for talalay, so I have quite a mixture. Yes I am sleeping on 4" soft talalay over 3" med dunlop over 3" firm dunlop. My wife is sleeping on 4" soft talalay over 3" med talalay over 3" medium dunlop (she can sleep on anything but prefers a soft bed).

Phoenix went into a lot of detail in this thread about dunlop vs talalay - I forget the exact terms but dunlop gets firmer faster as it compresses. So firm dunlop vs firm talalay might feel the same uncompressed, but as soon as you lay on it and compress it the dunlop will feel firmer.

As I said I think you might be fine with just the 1 layer of dunlop on the extra firm core. Give that a try. I don't mind "helping" you but I'm not one of the experts here. Thats why I suggested you start a new thread...