Topic Thread

Return to Topic List
st3v3k4hn


Joined: May 22, 2008
Points: 171

That pillowtop feel
Original Message   Feb 2, 2011 2:22 pm
Quote Quote
So we all know to avoid pillowtops (because they contain very soft, cheap poly foam that won't last). But, I miss that pillowtop feel! I have a Sleepez 10000 mattress (config below), which is reasonably comfortable and seems to have about the right amount of support. I sleep ok, don't have backaches, but I do wake feeling stiff and a bit sore on my "bony" places. But the main thing is, it isn't cushy like a pillowtop. I've tried all sorts of toppers (memory foam, wool, feather bed, etc) to get that feel, however some of them were less than high quality, so I am not sure if the failure was due to quality or material. My latest attempt was 1" of "soft" latex from Sleepez. But their soft is ~ 23 ILD, which would be quite firm compared to say the supersoft 14 ILD latex you can get. So I am thinking of replacing the soft latex with supersoft latex. Alternatives would be a high quality convoluted foam, or the Dormier wool topper. Does anyone know if any of these would feel pillowtoppish? Or do I need to use cheap poly foam for that feel? Thanks...

My current mattress config. I added a 1" talalay latex topper to the standard 10000 mattress (its in the cover with all the other latex), so I have (top to bottom):

  • 1" soft talalay (23 ILD)
  • 3" soft talalay (23)
  • 3" medium dunlop (31)
  • 3" firm dunlop (39)

Other toppers I've tried

  1. Memory foam doesn't work for me, starts too cold and hard and ends up too hot and soft
  2. Feather bed felt good at first but compresses too much
  3. The convoluted foam I tried must have been cheap or defective; it broke down very quickly and never was very comfortable
  4. The Cuddlebed from Costco may have helped some but the outside layer was so much fuller than the inside that it felt off-balance to me.
  5. Wool may work; the topper I tried was pretty thin and was backed with a firm lining that made things feel firmer to me. The St Dormier sounds a lot fluffier.

Yes, I know I'm picky smiley

Steve

Replies: 5 - 14 of 14Next page of topicsPreviousAllView as Outline
Post Reply
st3v3k4hn


Joined: May 22, 2008
Points: 171

Re: That pillowtop feel
Reply #5   Feb 3, 2011 12:38 am
Quote Quote
Thank you both, very helpful! I called Sleepez to see if they would take back my 1" soft soft latex and Shawn said he would. I told him I want a supersoft layer, he said they don't normally have supersoft because it doesn't last that long and he doesn't want to warranty it, but he is going to see if he can get a layer for me. I'll hold off on the wool for now...
This message was modified Feb 3, 2011 by st3v3k4hn
shovel99


Joined: Dec 11, 2009
Points: 111

Re: That pillowtop feel- Supersoft High Quality Poly from Foamdistributing.com
Reply #6   Feb 3, 2011 10:01 am
Quote Quote
Steve,

I know exactly what you are talking about as that is what I have been after for years now.  The St. Dormier is a skirted mattress pad.. washable wool encased in stretchy 100% cotton, very loose skirt.  Mine just arrived.. it does add some "firmness" but is probably a keeper for me.  Before that I have been sleeping on just a sheet between me and my 1 inch top layer of 4 ILD eco green memory foam from Overstock.

All good recommendations from the others, here.

While I own and have tried the 1 inch of 14 ILD from sleep like a bear (not yet under the dormier but plan to tonight) ... under just a sheet, I found it too soft... and hence not supportive. 

IMHO, the feel we are both looking for comes from just the right degree of softness and the right (thin thickness) .... of polyurethane foam... which is on top of almost every mattress made, from cheap to expensive.  I believe the mattress industry is using poly in half inch thicknesses and softer than what  we can buy because the makers cannot make enough money on a half inch of  it.. when they  sell one inch queens for $40!

Of my current 4 separate 1 inch layers, as follows, two of them are "supersoft high quality poly foam" sold by foamdistributing.com, because it feels better  to me than the more expensive latex.  They just don't make the latex in enough softnesses for my/our desires.  My stack, on a firm set of linked springs (Serta Auburn Firm):

top:  1 inch 4 lb memory foam, next:  1 inch supersoft poly, next 1 inch 20 ILD latex from Foambymail.con, next 1 inch supersoft poly, then a 3/16 inch felt pad which came on top of the mattress.. which stains and marks the foam on top  of it.  I have tried hundreds if not thousands of combinations of inches of latex, memory,  and poly foam and found this to be best... for now.. for me.

I wanted so badly for latex top to bottom to work, because it will be done and last, but it just doesn't work for my side/back sleeper, lower back lumbar problem.

I would try one inch of the super soft poly.. it  will be 82x82 and you will have to cut to queen... easy.  Cost about $40.

And you can fold it to get the effect of two inches.  I have most of mine cut in half so I can do that.. and with a pad or cover over the top when you  find the right combination, you willlhardly know that there is a seam there.

Foam distributing does sell this same material in egg crate, thicker, which I have tried, but I prefer the 1 inch without the  crating.

I wish someone  sold this material in half inch thicknesses...because a half  inch of it over some 19 ILD may be even better!  I haven't called them to ask.. and should.

Good luck.

 

st3v3k4hn wrote:

So we all know to avoid pillowtops (because they contain very soft, cheap poly foam that won't last). But, I miss that pillowtop feel! I have a Sleepez 10000 mattress (config below), which is reasonably comfortable and seems to have about the right amount of support. I sleep ok, don't have backaches, but I do wake feeling stiff and a bit sore on my "bony" places. But the main thing is, it isn't cushy like a pillowtop. I've tried all sorts of toppers (memory foam, wool, feather bed, etc) to get that feel, however some of them were less than high quality, so I am not sure if the failure was due to quality or material. My latest attempt was 1" of "soft" latex from Sleepez. But their soft is ~ 23 ILD, which would be quite firm compared to say the supersoft 14 ILD latex you can get. So I am thinking of replacing the soft latex with supersoft latex. Alternatives would be a high quality convoluted foam, or the Dormier wool topper. Does anyone know if any of these would feel pillowtoppish? Or do I need to use cheap poly foam for that feel? Thanks...

My current mattress config. I added a 1" talalay latex topper to the standard 10000 mattress (its in the cover with all the other latex), so I have (top to bottom):

  • 1" soft talalay (23 ILD)
  • 3" soft talalay (23)
  • 3" medium dunlop (31)
  • 3" firm dunlop (39)

Other toppers I've tried

  1. Memory foam doesn't work for me, starts too cold and hard and ends up too hot and soft
  2. Feather bed felt good at first but compresses too much
  3. The convoluted foam I tried must have been cheap or defective; it broke down very quickly and never was very comfortable
  4. The Cuddlebed from Costco may have helped some but the outside layer was so much fuller than the inside that it felt off-balance to me.
  5. Wool may work; the topper I tried was pretty thin and was backed with a firm lining that made things feel firmer to me. The St Dormier sounds a lot fluffier.

Yes, I know I'm picky smiley

Steve



shovel99


Joined: Dec 11, 2009
Points: 111

Re: That pillowtop feel - More thoughts
Reply #7   Feb 3, 2011 11:01 am
Quote Quote
Continuation from last post:  I am 6 ft male, 170 lbs and as you know weight and sleep patterns matter.

I started out toward building an all latex mattress but first stacked up all the 20 ILD pieces I had from foambymail.com, which was 2 x2 inch and 2x 1 inch, for 6 full inches of "only" 20 ILD and laid it on the floor. I figured if I could get to "soft enough" with all latex, 20 ILD was the softest I could find at the time, before discovering SLAB and rocky mountain, where they had 14 ILD at outrageous prices, of course. SLAB 14 is $172, 1 inch, queen, where 20 ILD from FBM is $93.

6 inches of 20 ILD felt like a rock.  Hurt shoulders, hips, back, everywhere.  A rock.  So I decided right there and then that throwing tons of money at Sleepez or XXX for slabs of latex was not going to work.

It was after thousands of dollars on mattresses and hundreds of toppers and combinations... and much great advice here... that I determined that mattress surgery was for me... that I needed some flexibility from the springs.. and no more than 4 inches of comfort layer.

As an engineer, I was shocked to learn with my 6 inch latex experiment, but also observed by phoenix here... that more inches of even soft latex actually makes the bed harder.  More = more suppportive. It is counterintuitive.

While I continue to experiment, I have found that for my sensitive and now boney shoulders and hips ... to accommodate side and back sleep.. but also the requirement that when sleeping on my  back, I need to (just) compress through the comfort layer to "something" of solid support so my back doesn't attempt to hold up my butt all night because it senses it is "falling into a hole".  That is the lower lumbar problem, and the best way I can describe what happens.

So the top 1 inch of memory foam (or maybe 14 ILD with some firmness in pad)... is an  absolute must for conforming for side sleep.  And for me... no more than 3 more inches of "soft".

I tried all combinations of 4 inches of latex using up to 4 x 1 inches of 20 ILD and 2x 1 inches of 14 ILD (split them all 30 inches wide for twice as many possibilities/$) All  too hard at one point or another.  The 1 inch of 4 lb mem foam does compress through the night.. but I found the 5 ILD starts out too firm.  I have tried mem foam under a top layer of 14 or 20.  14+ 4 lb too soft and squishy, 20+ 4lb too hard on top, for me.

I just "rebought" the 1 inch 5lb "sensus" from O Stock.  Wanted to give it another try.. with some new layers I didn't have when I tried it and threw away earlier.  Only $72 on top of $6000, so what the heck?  Oops.  Still don't like it.  It isn't that much firmer  than the ecogreen 1 inch 4lb from overstock.com (too)...and is really squishy feeling.  Apparently some like  it.

So again, good luck.

t

klas


Joined: Dec 24, 2010
Points: 46

Re: That pillowtop feel
Reply #8   Feb 3, 2011 12:50 pm
Quote Quote
I am glad I am reading this post, because I am after the same "pillow top feel" as everyone else here. Although, it appears that we have different preferences in the firmness we also need to take our weight differences into considerations. I am shoked that someone would say that 20 IDL is firm as a rock while I am currently sleeping on 32 IDL and I find it very comfortable. (I am 5'9" & 175 pounds)

Back to topic though, I had a thought running through my head a while back that instead of selling my used spring mattress for cheap, rip out the pillow top layer and recycle it, but that defeats the whole purpose of my idea of "100% natural bed". So I decided looking for pillow top feel with natural wool covers and soft toppers.

Wool topper from Costco gave me somewhat a softer feel, but it's not enough, so now I am after 1" soft latex topper. I am reading that 1" 14 IDL (or possibly 15 IDL from SLAB) might be what I need, but at the same time some people have conflicting results. Should I bother with it? Also $200 for 15 IDL from SLAB seems a bit too much, can anyone recommend cheaper place?

This message was modified Feb 3, 2011 by klas
sandman


Joined: Oct 15, 2009
Points: 961

Re: That pillowtop feel
Reply #9   Feb 3, 2011 1:11 pm
Quote Quote
I have not seen the 14ILD talatech or 15 Celsion any place but sleeplikeabear.   I would think it would be available somewhere else, possibly cheaper, but you would have to do some searching.

Some think 14 is too soft, so 19 is another alternative.   Steve finds the 23 too firm, so I am not sure if the 19 would be enough of a difference.  Anyway, I would tend to stick to 1" of the 14, and if one wants more then I would probably add 1" of 19.   Then you can 2 options, with the 19 on top being a bit firmer.   Of course, if you have 1" of 14 I would try folding it in half if possible to see what that is like, before adding another inch.

They also make the Evercload latex quilting.  That should add some plush pillowtop feel as well, but not sure where you can buy it.  It would be nice is it came in a fitted top, but I don't think it does.

klas


Joined: Dec 24, 2010
Points: 46

Re: That pillowtop feel
Reply #10   Feb 3, 2011 5:20 pm
Quote Quote
Does anyone have experience with foamonline.com? They seem to have varying firmness as low as 10 IDL. Not sure about their quality, but I am tempted to order samples at $2 a piece.
st3v3k4hn


Joined: May 22, 2008
Points: 171

Re: That pillowtop feel
Reply #11   Feb 4, 2011 8:20 pm
Quote Quote
Just an FYI, I called Shawn at SleepEZ and explained my current situation and told him I want a supersoft layer. He said he normally doesn't stock that because it won't last as long as higher density foam, and he doesn't want to run into warranty issues. But he said he would get me a layer if I didn't expect a warranty. The point here is that he is charging me the same price as for the regular soft. That's $147 for 1" cal king, as compared to $232 at SLAB, so thats a pretty big savings. I don't know the source for the Sleepez foam but I've never heard anyone complain about their foam so I think I'm good here. I'm pretty sure he would be happy to order more if anyone else is interested. Otherwise I will report back when I get this (next week sometime)...

Steve

This message was modified Feb 5, 2011 by st3v3k4hn
klas


Joined: Dec 24, 2010
Points: 46

Re: That pillowtop feel
Reply #12   Feb 4, 2011 8:24 pm
Quote Quote
Did you ask him what IDL? Let us know when you get it, I would be curious since it might be cheaper.
This message was modified Feb 4, 2011 by klas
shovel99


Joined: Dec 11, 2009
Points: 111

Re: That pillowtop feel
Reply #13   Feb 5, 2011 7:25 am
Quote Quote
Klas,

The old mattress seller "saw" that "everyone is different" is, unfortunately true.  What is firm or soft is completely subjective and sleep patterns... and what your mattress pad over the top varies a lot.  Even a tighter sheet will make a huge difference.  I learned that the hard way.

Re: your 1 inch topper, since you are sleeping pretty well on 32 ILD.... weigh what I do, I'll bet you are a back sleeper.  Further, I have concluded that the 14 ILD SLAB that I have is probably too soft for me.  I have pulled it out numerous times and tried it, top layer, second layer, and found each time that it was too soft, not supportive enough even for me, who must want among the softest top layers to accommodate my boney shoulder/hip in side sleep.   I felt 6 inches of 20 was hard.  There were some issues, as I thought the 2x2 inch part of that may have been mismarked.

At any rate, having been there with all the products, I strongly recommend that you get 20 ILD from www.foambymail.com. It is 'quite soft' as others have said.  The last piece I bought from them was perfect... for $93 delivered.. though a previous piece had several small 2x2 inch patches which did not affect the usability of the product one iota.

I don't think you will regret this.  Slightly more than half, and I am sure you would be unhappy with SLAB.

Oh... one important difference:  SLAB will accept a return, FBM will not.    The first time I tried the 14 ILD (found it too soft then, too)... they accepted my return graciously... with restocking fee/shipping of $32 from Atlanta.  So you can experiment with 14 ILD at a high cost.

http://www.foambymail.com/LatexTopper.html

 

 

klas wrote:

I am glad I am reading this post, because I am after the same "pillow top feel" as everyone else here. Although, it appears that we have different preferences in the firmness we also need to take our weight differences into considerations. I am shoked that someone would say that 20 IDL is firm as a rock while I am currently sleeping on 32 IDL and I find it very comfortable. (I am 5'9" & 175 pounds)

Back to topic though, I had a thought running through my head a while back that instead of selling my used spring mattress for cheap, rip out the pillow top layer and recycle it, but that defeats the whole purpose of my idea of "100% natural bed". So I decided looking for pillow top feel with natural wool covers and soft toppers.

Wool topper from Costco gave me somewhat a softer feel, but it's not enough, so now I am after 1" soft latex topper. I am reading that 1" 14 IDL (or possibly 15 IDL from SLAB) might be what I need, but at the same time some people have conflicting results. Should I bother with it? Also $200 for 15 IDL from SLAB seems a bit too much, can anyone recommend cheaper place?



st3v3k4hn


Joined: May 22, 2008
Points: 171

Re: That pillowtop feel
Reply #14   Feb 9, 2011 2:27 pm
Quote Quote
I haven't received the supersoft layer from SleepEZ yet but I talked to Shawn today - he said its 16 ILD, and from Radium.
Replies: 5 - 14 of 14Next page of topicsPreviousAllView as Outline
Post Reply
More Information
Help Help
Member List Member List
Moderator List Moderator List
Recent Posts
  • Re: Springs. Can we talk? - mattdud
    Apr 22, 2014 12:07 pm
  • Re: Latex Mattress advice for first time buyer - mattdud
    Apr 22, 2014 12:03 pm
  • Re: Latex Mattress advice for first time buyer - BedBuggy
    Apr 20, 2014 9:58 pm
  • Springs. Can we talk? - BedBuggy
    Apr 20, 2014 9:53 pm
  • Latex Mattress advice for first time buyer - Katydid
    Apr 18, 2014 3:22 pm
  • Re: Beautyrest or alternatives, spinal fusion disc issues - mattdud
    Apr 17, 2014 1:11 pm
  • Re: Mattress/topper ideas for side sleeper - mattdud
    Apr 17, 2014 12:39 pm
  • Re: cleaning the zippered cover over my serta icomfort mattress - mattdud
    Apr 17, 2014 12:35 pm
    Home    Buying Guide    Featured Products    Forum    Reviews    About    Contact   
    Copyright ©1998-2014, Whats The Best, Inc. All rights reserved. Site by Take 42