Hi mattress geniuses,

I am hoping to get some advice.  Here are our specs:

Me (M): 6'  215 lbs - side sleeper switch sides frequently during night.  Sleep with pillow under my head another to hold onto with my arm and a body pillow for between my legs. Not sure if it is relevant but I also have severe acid reflux.  I tend to get hot while sleeping and am very allergic to dust mites (just giving all info :)  )

Wife (F): 5'7" 148 lbs - usually side sleeper but sometimes uses other positions / just one pillow under head

I'm looking for any and all kinds of advice regarding a latex mattress.  Our current bed is a king Simmons Beautyrest (either World Class or Classic or something similar judging by their pictures) we've had for about 6 years and it is getting pretty uncomfortable to sleep in.  The matching box springs would seem to be in good condition.

I would like something that will last a long time and hopefully be less than $2000 (willing to go a little more if I have to).

First I was looking at the Sealy SpringFree line but there don't seem to be any reliable reviews on those and they don't seem to be made entirely of latex so the parts that aren't will not last long.

Then I started reading this site and checked out the sleepez and flobed sites and find them confusing so I now come to the experts to give their valued opinions.

Thank you kindly in advance and hope to be sleeping comfortably in the near future.

Cheers!
Dave

Hi Dave,

When you first get started looking at latex, things can be confusing.  This is because there are many variables to latex:

1) The manufacturing method.  The oldest method is called Dunlop and a "newer" (but still around for decades) method is called Talalay.  You can read about the difference in the manufacturing method here:

http://www.latexfoam.com/index.php?did=12#1
http://www.savvyrest.com/helpful-info/natural-dunlop-talalay


Some people prefer Dunlop latex, some people prefer Talalay latex.  Some people think that Dunlop latex, being denser than Talalay latex, is more supportive.  I have tried mattresses made from both types of latex, and I don't believe this is true - provided you get the right firmness.

2) The type of latex.  Basically there are two types of latex:
     a) 100% natural botanically grown latex
     b)  Blended latex (typically 70% synthetic and 30% natural)

Read about the differences here:

http://www.latexfoam.com/index.php?did=12#10

Here again you will find a wide range of opinions regarging what is "best."  Some people are purists and like the 100% botanically grown.  Some people believe that blended will be more durable.  I have heard reports that the odor of latex (which is very mild and dissipates quickly) is stronger with 100% natural than with blended.  Apparantly there is a difference in density between natural and blended.  I think the type of latex is actually just a personal preference, and not one that will affect the performance of the latex.

3) The firmness of the latex.  Latex comes in different firmnesses, or ILDs (indentation load deflection).  The ILD rating of a piece of latex tells you how firm it is.  The higher the ILD rating, the firmer the mattress:

http://www.sleeplikeabear.com/faq.html#5

Talalay latex is available in a wider range of firmnesses than Dunlop latex.

From all this, I can tell you:

~ do your own reading and look at several different websites to read up on latex mattresses.
~ if possible, reserach your area and try to find a latex bed to try out (not a Spring Free or other mattress that isn't 100% latex).  It takes a little digging, but I was able to find three places to try 100% latex mattresses in both Talalay and Dunlop.
~ a heavier person like you needs a firmer mattress (for support) than a lighter person like your wife.

I ended up getting the Flobed blended talalay latex mattress.  I am a heavier person and I have three layers of latex that are extra firm (36 ILD) with a softer 2" convoluted topper on top.  Eagle2 on this forum is a heavier person who also bought a Flobed, but his is natural latex, and slightly less firm.  We each bought a different type of Talalay latex but we've both been very happy with our purchases.  But other latex mattress companies have great reputations too, and I think several people on this forum bought their beds from Saavy Rest and Sleepez.

The reason I like Flobeds is because the individual layers of latex are shipped with a zippered mattress cover.  You assemble the mattress at home (not a big deal and kind of fun, if awkward).  If, after trying out the mattress, the firmness isn't right, you can ship one or more layers back (inexpensively) and they will send you out new layers, softer or firmer as you prefer.  And you have 90 days to try out the mattress and exchange layers until you have it just the way you like, or, if it doesn't work out, you can return the whole thing for a refund.  The Flobed I believe is a shade more expensive than the other companies, but the exchange/return policy is the best.

One of the other benefits of getting a latex mattress is that you and your wife can each customize the firmness levels for your sides of the bed.  You being heavier, probably need a firmer ILD than your wife needs.  She can get softer latex and you can get firmer.  I am not sure about other manufacturers, but with Flobed you end up with seven pieces of latex - three layers for each side (all individually chosen ILDs) plus a convoluted topper that goes over the top of everything (and of course everything is inside the zippered mattress cover).

One handy feature on the Flobed website is they have a firmness evaluator where you put in your height, weight, sex, preferred sleeping position, and preferred firmness level.  I used it when I was shopping around for my mattress, and the Flobed firmness evaluator  recommended I get two extra firm layers and a firm layer.  I did not like this recommendation, because I like my mattresses to feel soft and cushy, so I ignored it and ordered a slightly softer configuration.  Well -- I should have listened because I ended up sending the softer layers back and now have all three of my layers extra firm!  I never would have guessed this is the way I'd go, but it's right for me.

If you're allergic to dust mites, latex is a natural repellant, and also, I believe several of the companies offer mattress covers with wool padding (this is what my Flobed has) which is also a dust mite repellant.

I hope this helps.  Nothing is really a substitution for your own research though, and ultimately, you have to dip your toe in the water, call one or more companies, talk to them, and order one to try out.  It was a little scary for me ordering a $2k mattress over the internet, but it was a very worthwhile purchase.  And luckily there are several apparantly reputable (at least people on this forum seem happy with them) companies to work with.  If you stick with Flobeds, Sleepez, or Saavy Rest, I'm sure you can't go wrong!

SixPax wrote:

No problem!  Since you apparently lack research comprehension, just fork over around $1,500 for a higher-end model in the Trump Home mattress line.  Maybe they will throw in one of those sheep stuffed animals.

sager66 wrote:
Why so hostile?  What exactly am I lacking?

To someone who doesn't mattress shop every day the choices and possible combinations of various layers are what I would consider confusing.

I understand the different types of latex and processes in making them and understand there are different firmness levels but that doesn't give me a hint of how many layers I actually need and what types of firmness I need in each layer.

If I can't come to the Whatsthebest-mattress.com forum and ask what the best mattress is for my needs then what is the point of this place?


On a side note I'd like to thank KimberlyH for her thoughtful and thorough response to my post.  Thank you Kim!  That really helps a lot.

I'll make no defense of Sager 66, as he needs none. However he, like so many who never say anything but do read the forum regularly, and have been here for some time, get tired of the same questions asked over and over again, that apparently those who are asking the questions aren't willing to taking the time to read these past responses.

There is a lot of information on this site but it does take some research. Unfortunately the old site had a lot of really good information and you cannot reach it without going into the old site which is here...... http://legacy.whatsthebest-mattress.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=wtb-mattress

There is more information on this site than you can shake a stick at regarding mattresses, but you do have to look for it.

Kimberly has give you an excellent response, and there are many more responses just as informative if you will look for them.

But if the information you find at FloBeds, SleepEZ, and Savvy Rest are too complicated for you, then you may find assimilating the information you want quite difficult. You might try habitat as they have a lot of really good video's.

I wish you well.

all im going to suggest/add is that if you are considering latex based on the 'hypoallergenic' properties, resistance to moulds, bacterial growth, dust mites...etc.  Do not consider buying a Sealy spring free.   These benefits of latex are specifically referring to the properties of natural rubber.  If you want the full benefit of these properties you should really consider buying 100% natural latex.  Sealy uses 100% synthetic (SBR) rubber which offers basically none of those benefits and in addition to this the mattresses are always quilted with a top layer of polyurethane foam, which is another thing you want to avoid if you want these benefits.  Also anything you mix into natural rubber will degrade these qualities, so synthetic blends also lose most of this benefit. 

As far as durability goes most of that is misinformation started by manufactuers like Latex International because they primarily only make synthetic blend rubber.  If you get any latex information from a sales person that is showing you Simmons, Serta, Spring Air/Restwell, *Sealy, Kingsdown and many other none latex specialty brands just keep in mind they all source their rubber through latex international and the information they are given basically originates from them.  There is not nearly enough real world testing to show that durability is truly enhanced with synthetic rubber.  I for one would argue that if their is a difference natural rubber (with regards to being used in a mattress and not a land fill) will last longer.  Synthetic rubber does a very good job of mimicking the bounce of natural rubber, on the other hand it lacks the elasticiity.  This is one of the reasons why natural rubber does not break down so quickly, the actual cells that make up the foam are more elastic and have the ability to stretch without breaking very easily, synthetic rubber is much more brittle and with a lot less use the cells in synthetic latex or synthetic blend they actually are more prone to breakage.  It is actually for this very reason that natural rubber is still used in making condoms and medical gloves.....for more than obvious reasons these items need to be able to stretch without breaking. 

Not all latex mattresses are customizable....there are lots of good ones out there you can test in a store but just be very careful about what you are getting, and try to avoid any mattresses that are latex foam on polyurethane base foams or have polyurethane quilted over the top.  in any event that basically ruins the overall value of the product. Do not worry yourself too much about what process is used, if you really talk to someone who knows what matters they will focus more on WHAT the latex is (synthetic, natural or blend of the two) rather than HOW it is processed (Dunlop or Talalay), truth be told the location the latex is grown and where it is actually processed has more difference in the quality of the end product than the process itself (location and content in most cases usually determine which process is used anyway).  And since it wasn't answered with as much certainty before yes natural rubber is *denser* in a sense that before it is turned into a foam product and you had liquid SBR rubber and liquid hevea milk the milk weighs more per ml or fluid oz than the SBR rubber. 


*Sealy actually makes their own rubber but it is 100% SBR (synthetic)

Please do not be turned off by some of the members who don't have patience for the same questions...

I would suggest that to save money you build your own latex mattress. Look for the best prices online where you can buy a 6" core and then maybe 3 x 1" latex layers of various ILD's, say 18, 24 and 32 or whatever.

If you want to save money you could try a 6" (or is 8", I forget...) firmest core (no mem. foam) from overnightmattress.com
It's not latex and maybe not as good (or maybe more comfortable for you, who knows?), but is MUCH cheaper.
However I do not recommend their mattresses with memory foam added, the mem. foam (imho) is not supportive enough. But it may work for some people. It's got a 120 night sleep trial (or more?) so nothing lost if you return it in perfect condition.

Thank you all for the information provided.

I decided to order a soft talalay king size topper from sleepez.com

Once we get it and have tried it out for a while I will post back with my opinion/review.

Cheers,
Dave

Dave, looking forward to your post about how you like the topper.  Thanks for sharing.  I think the topper sounds like a great idea for your situation.