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arg0


Joined: Aug 8, 2009
Points: 12

Serta Pure Response vs Natura Solice: HELP!
Original Message   Aug 8, 2009 7:58 pm
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Hello, I have looked for reviews for these two latex mattresses, but haven't really found any. I am really hoping
somebody has an opinion. Before I give details, let me just mention that  I cannot afford the pure organic mattress from Natura,
so I am aware that the Natura that I am looking at contains some chemicals. In particular,  I am looking at the Ultra-Green Solice.
According to the Natura website, the Solice contains:
  •  Non-removable plush top
  • Bamboo/Cotton blend stretch ticking
  • 18 oz./ yd² Natura Smart Wool in plush top
  • 8" Talalay latex core
  • All natural fire barrier
  • 20 year warranty
Now, today, my husband and I tried out a Serta Pure Response Lavish and Illumination. I gather no one is very happy with the S-brands, but this
bed seemed very comfortable, but I am still concerned about it due to the S-brand reputation.

I know that there is some PU foam in the Serta, but not much. Will this really degrade over time? I am
taking this mattress abroad, so I need it to last a long time.

Any help, advice, anything, would be extemely appreciated. I thank you all in advance!
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shollis13


Joined: Sep 29, 2009
Points: 3

Re: Serta Pure Response vs Natura Solice: HELP!
Reply #1   Sep 29, 2009 1:15 am
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Serta makes a great Latex product.  Their products are all Talalay process beds which is the best in the industry.  They have beds that have a soy based core or a Talalay core.  The talalay core is the one you want and would last you for a long time.  Feel great about that and dont listen to all the S brand stuff. If you do then dont buy a car from anyone because that is saying Chevy and Ford, for example, make cars that arent worth a flip either.  Good luck.
Catherine


Joined: Aug 1, 2009
Points: 175

Re: Serta Pure Response vs Natura Solice: HELP!
Reply #2   Sep 29, 2009 9:43 am
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shollis13 wrote:
....... dont listen to all the S brand stuff. If you do then dont buy a car from anyone because that is saying Chevy and Ford, for example, make cars that arent worth a flip either.

I'm sorry, but that statement is just silly. I'm not sure exactly what kind of logical flaw that statement is demonstrating, and I don't have time to look it up, but there is a reasoning flaw there, for sure. Saying "if you think S-brand mattresses are crap, then you must think American cars are crap, too" is ridiculous. It implies an association where there is none. It's like saying "If you don't like broccoli, you must hate tomatoes, too."

shollis13, I don't mean to pounce on you, but the comments I've seen of yours in 3 threads this morning make me wonder if you're affiliated with the mattress industry. If you are, forum guidelines necessitate that you make that affiliation clear. If you're not, then my apologies. But I stand by my first paragraph here. Comparing two unrelated things in that manner just doesn't make sense.
-----------

arg0 -- I can't help much, I'm afraid. I don't know anything about those mattresses. Maybe someone else here does. I'd recommend against getting anything with a built-in plush top, unless you're willing to cut it off when it goes flat. The main complaint against the S-brand mattresses is that many of them are filled with low-density foam that gets crushed and goes flat very quickly.

You mentioned that you want to take the mattress abroad with you. Is there a reason that you don't want to just buy a mattress in the country you're going to be living in? That seems simpler to me, unless you'll be out in the bush, or something.  :-)

-Catherine

This message was modified Sep 29, 2009 by Catherine
jimsocal


Location: L.A. area
Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Points: 1160

Re: Serta Pure Response vs Natura Solice: HELP!
Reply #3   Sep 29, 2009 8:11 pm
Quote Quote
shollis13 wrote:
Serta makes a great Latex product.  Their products are all Talalay process beds which is the best in the industry.  They have beds that have a soy based core or a Talalay core.  The talalay core is the one you want and would last you for a long time.  Feel great about that and dont listen to all the S brand stuff. If you do then dont buy a car from anyone because that is saying Chevy and Ford, for example, make cars that arent worth a flip either.  Good luck.

shollis, you have a right to your opinion, as we do, ours. Your analogy of S brands to American cars is way off base. As far as I know, when you buy a car the company freely discloses what motor it has, and in fact all the major aspects of the car are disclosed, unlike the mattress industry where they do not like to tell you that there is a bunch of very cheap foam inside that will break down fairly quickly; as opposed to a company like flobeds where they tell you EXACTLY what is inside the mattress (high quality latex and memory foam). I use flobeds as an example, but there are many non-S brand mattresses that do disclose their "ingredients" (SavvyRest, FoamByMail and others)

I would like to know, since you seem to know a lot about Serta, what OTHER foams are inside their latex mattress? What type(s) of foam and what ILD's of those foams are present, say, in their latex "pillowtop" model? I am not against any S brand mattress that does use quality materials and discloses fully what those materials are! In fact I will gladly refer people to it who are interested in an S brand matress... if I can only find one that meets that criteria! So far, the only S brand mattresses I have seen that carry a "latex mattress" have loaded that mattress with plenty of non-latex foam that will break down quickly, negating the quality of the latex. But of course, it's cheaper to manufacture that way and more profit can be had from it.

By the way, Catherine is right: if you work in the mattress industry you are required to disclose that. Here's part of the rules which you will find at the top of the forum listings under FORUM GUIDELINES:

"STANDARDS FOR MATTRESS INDUSTRY AFFILIATED POSTERS  
(e.g., retailers, resellers, makers)  
 
Note:  All members, including consumers and mattress industry professionals should be familiar with these standards. The standards have been written and approved by the forum's moderators and administrators.  
 
This forum welcomes mattress industry affiliated members.  However, please note that we ask ALL mattress affiliated individuals to self-disclose their industry affiliation when they enter the forum, and to periodically remind posters of their affiliation when making a recommendation within a given thread. [emphasis mine, jimsocal] Discretion and good judgment are key to this standard.  If you feel that your suggestions within a given thread would be construed differently by others as a result of your mattress industry affiliation, then you should qualify/caveat your comments by disclosing your affiliation.    "
jimsocal


Location: L.A. area
Joined: Jan 18, 2008
Points: 1160

Re: Serta Pure Response vs Natura Solice: HELP!
Reply #4   Sep 29, 2009 8:19 pm
Quote Quote
arg0 wrote:
Hello, I have looked for reviews for these two latex mattresses, but haven't really found any. I am really hoping
somebody has an opinion. Before I give details, let me just mention that  I cannot afford the pure organic mattress from Natura,
so I am aware that the Natura that I am looking at contains some chemicals. In particular,  I am looking at the Ultra-Green Solice.
According to the Natura website, the Solice contains:
  • Non-removable plush top
  • Bamboo/Cotton blend stretch ticking
  • 18 oz./ yd² Natura Smart Wool in plush top
  • 8" Talalay latex core
  • All natural fire barrier
  • 20 year warranty
Now, today, my husband and I tried out a Serta Pure Response Lavish and Illumination. I gather no one is very happy with the S-brands, but this
bed seemed very comfortable, but I am still concerned about it due to the S-brand reputation.

I know that there is some PU foam in the Serta, but not much. Will this really degrade over time? I am
taking this mattress abroad, so I need it to last a long time.

Any help, advice, anything, would be extemely appreciated. I thank you all in advance!
arg0, frankly it just makes no sense to buy a latex mattress that has polyurethane foam in with it. The pu foam WILL break down, and very quickly. I have seen plenty of people - including myself - complain about it breaking down within a week, certainly within a few months. PU foam is cheap. That's why the mattress companies use it, and that's why they prefer not to disclose how much of it is in there.

I'd ask Serta, "Is the pu foam in there at least GOOD PU foam? Is it HR foam? What densitiy? Don't believe the sales person, demand to see proof. No offense to industry folks, but plenty of sales people (in any industry) are prone to lying about their products. They get paid by commission, usually so they want to make a sale. So that's why I'd want to see it in writing from the company.

As Catherine said, if you're moving abroad, why take the mattress with you? Surely you could get one just as good (especially if you buy the Serta) in that country. Depends on where you're moving but I know for example that in Central America, they charge a high import fee on things, and that they have their own mattresses which are at least as good if not better than the S brands. And I think you can get latex in most countries if you try.

By the way, please avoid getting any "Pillow Top" that is not pure latex. It's the pillow top which causes the most problems. Usually it's pu foam and it breaks down quickly causing back ache. Better to get a very firm mattress with no pu foam, then you can add your own soft latex topper (14-20 ILD Talalay latex).

Good luck.
arg0


Joined: Aug 8, 2009
Points: 12

Re: Serta Pure Response vs Natura Solice: HELP!
Reply #5   Oct 21, 2009 2:47 pm
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Thanks so much for the helpful comments! To answer your questions, we have a Cal King (which they don't have abroad), thus the reason for us taking it with us.

I did buy the Solice, which seems very good, and a mattress mate topper by the same company. But the combo still seems too firm. I knew it would be firm, but that is why we bought
the topper (4", 2" talalay and 2" wool). I finally called Natura and discovered that the topper is made with 2"   26-32 ILD talalay
which probably accounts for the firmness????? My local store said they would switch out the Talalay (from the topper) with an ILD of 20-22. What do you think?
They are only charging me the shipping ($80). Any thoughts?
Kait


Location: Yosemite area
Joined: Sep 10, 2008
Points: 249

Re: Serta Pure Response vs Natura Solice: HELP!
Reply #6   Oct 21, 2009 3:44 pm
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I don't think that you would be necessarily getting a better mattress just because they label it green.   I am starting to feel my hackles rise when brands claim to be chemical-free and therefore green.  It seems to me that they are often just going for the sales gimmick, since green is considered good, and can charge more for the product.  First, the premise is flawed.  If you have ever taken a chemistry class, it is clear that EVERYTHING on this good earth(and elsewhere) is composed of CHEMICALS.  You, me, the trees, dirt, everything is chemical.   So it is impossible for anything to be chemical-free, or even have LESS chemicals than another product.
It is possible to have less of certain kinds of chemicals, tho.  Just a FWIW.
The PU foam will wear out before the Latex, and depending on where it is in the mattress, could cause body indentations.   The big S brands are less favorable on this list(and include S & F)because of their history of using so much cheap p/u foam in their products.  Feels great at first then not.  Their beds have a lot of profit in them.
I wonder why you are buying a new mattress and then moving with it?  Latex mattresses are very heavy and hard to carry anywhere.  There are good beds in other countries, after all!
Kait
eagle2


Joined: Aug 17, 2009
Points: 542

Re: Serta Pure Response vs Natura Solice: HELP!
Reply #7   Oct 21, 2009 4:01 pm
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Yes, we had another member of the board who is quite defensive of the big S. brands and love to make outrageous analogies.

Too many folks on this forum have had too many negative experiences with what the major manufacturers of mattresses have been getting away with for decades. We have found that you are better off either performing your own surgery on your current mattress, if it is a innerspring mattress with a good set of springs, or dealing with one of the niche market companies that deal in quality latex products.

To each their own, but I really enjoy knowing what is actually inside my mattress and being able to do something about it.
Catherine


Joined: Aug 1, 2009
Points: 175

Re: Serta Pure Response vs Natura Solice: HELP!
Reply #8   Oct 21, 2009 4:04 pm
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arg0 wrote:
I did buy the Solice, which seems very good, and a mattress mate topper by the same company. But the combo still seems too firm. I knew it would be firm, but that is why we bought the topper (4", 2" talalay and 2" wool). I finally called Natura and discovered that the topper is made with 2"   26-32 ILD talalay
which probably accounts for the firmness????? My local store said they would switch out the Talalay (from the topper) with an ILD of 20-22. What do you think?
They are only charging me the shipping ($80). Any thoughts?

I'm a little bit confused about what's in and on your mattress. What's in the plush top and how thick is it? Is it the same thing as the topper you're talking about, or something that's attached to the mattress (like a pillowtop) and underneath the topper?

Latex with an ILD of 20-22 will be softer than latex in the 26-32 ILD range. I'm not sure how much of a difference a few points on the ILD scale will make, but it could be worth a try. However, $80 seems like a lot for shipping (to me, anyway) -- does that include the return shipping for the topper that's too firm?  (And if the store is local, why would they charge you for shipping?)

-Catherine
arg0


Joined: Aug 8, 2009
Points: 12

Re: Serta Pure Response vs Natura Solice: HELP!
Reply #9   Oct 21, 2009 4:20 pm
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Catherine wrote:
I'm a little bit confused about what's in and on your mattress. What's in the plush top and how thick is it? Is it the same thing as the topper you're talking about, or something that's attached to the mattress (like a pillowtop) and underneath the topper?

Latex with an ILD of 20-22 will be softer than latex in the 26-32 ILD range. I'm not sure how much of a difference a few points on the ILD scale will make, but it could be worth a try. However, $80 seems like a lot for shipping (to me, anyway) -- does that include the return shipping for the topper that's too firm?  (And if the store is local, why would they charge you for shipping?)

-Catherine

Hi Catherine,

Thanks for your post. I guess my post was a bit confusing. The solice mattress is 10" and is firm. It is solid latex with no pillowtop. I'm not sure what ILD is in the solice mattress. I'm now trying to make the topper softer. The topper is 4", and has 2" of  26-32 ILD talalay latex with 2" of wool. The topper (and mattress) are made by Natura.

I bought the topper through a local store, who is willing to swap the latex part out for a softer latex (NaturaWorld won't do this). The total cost to me for the swap is $80. The local store has to order the new 2" cal king size latex sheet. I didn't expect the store to do the swap for free, and thought the charge was reasonable. No? In any case,  the topper just doesn't feel soft enough. My husband is hurting and not sleeping well, and I also feel that the bed is too hard. I have a bad back, and although my hurt is much less then it was before, I still don't feel like I want to stay in bed when it is time to get up (a sign of total comfort). We both like some cushion. Regardless, it is a much better set up then we had before (a sterns and foster pillowtop). I rather not go the memory foam topper route. But I'll do whatever needs to be done in order to get a comfortable bed!
This message was modified Oct 21, 2009 by arg0
eagle2


Joined: Aug 17, 2009
Points: 542

Re: Serta Pure Response vs Natura Solice: HELP!
Reply #10   Oct 21, 2009 6:28 pm
Quote Quote
Catherine said: "Latex with an ILD of 20-22 will be softer than latex in the 26-32 ILD range. I'm not sure how much of a difference a few points on the ILD scale will make."

If my calculations are correct, and you can actually gauge the difference in ILD's in this fashion, then the difference between a piece of latex with an ILD of 22 compared to a piece of latex with an ILD of 32, you would have a difference of 60%. If you do what Latex International does with their ILD numbers and take the middle number in the range that would be from 21 ILD to 29 ILD, or approximately a 40% increase.

Since we are talking in pounds per ILD, then we are talking about a significant difference in feel. I know I can certainly feel a significant difference between a soft piece of International Latex at 22 ILD and a medium piece at 28 ILD.

When you stop to realize that the methodology used to acquire the ILD number, is to take a 4 inch piece of foam compress it 25% of its depth, or 1 inch, and read the number of pounds required to press a ( I believe it's an 8 inch diagonally measured piece of round steel) plate into the foam to this depth, and take a reading. An ILD of 22 would simply mean it took 22 pounds of pressure to squeeze the plate 1 inch into a 4 inch block of foam. I posted a reference to this very convoluted process on another thread. It is quite involved. Believe me it's simpler to just use the numbers given as a general reference point and accept the fact that a soft piece is softer than a medium piece..... and so forth.

But Please, understand this. Not all companies ILD numbers are going to precisely line up with another companies. They will not even line up completely accurately within their own factory. There are just too many intervening variables. So take these numbers as a general ballpark reference point. and so as not to become further confuse understand this also, if you see the reference IFD do not become confused it is basically the same thing as ILD. It is just the newer number and the more accepted number with in that scientific community. ILD stands for "indention load deflection" and IFD stands for "indention force deflection" the reason that I found for this change, has something to do with the metric system. They have simply substituted the word "Force" for the word "Load".That is the only change as far as I know. Other than that, it's beyond me!
This message was modified Oct 21, 2009 by eagle2
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