As you know I have been trying to get back to the "sweet spot" that I achieved on my newly operated-on Englander a few months ago. For some reason it was great at first then mysteriously didn't work for me any more. So lately I've been trying various configurations.

Two nights ago I put my fake Venus foam on top. So it was like this from the top down:
Venus 1" foam (fake Venus sold by Overstock)
32ILD natural Talalay latex
1" HR foam on bottom
Englander springs

That did not work for me.

Then, as I have done before, I reversed the memory foam so that it was not on top, but rather under one layer. This worked for me. This also has been the way my wife has been using it for some time.

Everyone says memory foam should be the top layer when used, but we find that it is better for us as a 2nd layer. (Of course, in my case, who knows? It may stop working for me tonight! But I have used it this way successfully in the past.)

Just wondering if anyone else has found this works for them - memory foam UNDER another layer?

So anyway, this is working for me now: (hope it keeps working)

32ILD natural Talalay latex
Venus 1" memory foam (fake Venus sold by Overstock)
1" HR foam on bottom
Englander springs

I have Flobeds latex that's coming up on 10 years old, and the latex cores are starting to dry and crack around the edges, so that's not necessarily an indication of synthetic, is it? 

elisa wrote:

You more than likely have the blended talalay latex.  I don't think they started carrying the natural latex til lately.  I don't believe Flobeds ever sold synthetic.  Anyone else?

Leo3 wrote:

Right, I don't think Flobeds ever used pure synthetic, most don't. I think Flobeds offers a blended Talalay (part synthetic). In fact, until recently most of us thought blended Talalay was the best. Latex International touted "blended Talalay" as "the best" and most of us bought into that, I think. Now Budgy and others have told us why Natural is better and so I for one, have changed my mind.

My piece could be anything. There's no way to know, I got it unmarked at a warehouse. All I know is that it's getting dried out around the edges.

Or, heck, maybe all latex dries out like this over time, or maybe it's the natural latex that does.

Paging: BUDGY!

jimsocal wrote:

I'm fascinated by this blended latex vs. natural latex comparison. I perused LI's web site and found the following under their FAQ's: "Blended latex is more durable than 100% natural latex sleep products and are less likely to take a body impression over time." It doesn't address any drying issues. But I guess only time will tell as to how natural latex fares against blended latex.

I really don't have any numbers I could provide on this.  The only empirical evidence is my own samples of aging blended talalay and natural talalay cores.  The natural ones of which have remained more pliable and less brittle to the touch.  I know when people bring there kids into the store they always end up playing with the samples, everytime they get their hands on the blended talalay sample I gotta vacuum the floor afterwards (3 year old sample, but its been doing this for a couple of years now). 

budgy wrote:

 

Budgy, thanks for sharing this. When it comes to the durability of natural vs. blended Talalay, I guess only time will tell. I wonder if contaminants have affected your sample pieces. I would imagine naturally occurring body oils on peoples' hands (as they handle the stuff), dirt/pollutants from the environment, the lack of steady compression from use as a mattress and even exposure to sunlight would affect any of your Talalay samples. I recently spoke with the owner of a latex mattress web site-- I called a lot of retailers-- and he said he expects the natural Talalay latex to last about 10 years before compressing too much. And yes, his site sold both natural and blended Talalay mattresses. I wish there were more data on this. 

A company which sells only 100% natural talalay latex (FoamSweetFoam) offers a 30 year warranty on their mattresses.  I don't expect to be around that long to file a claim!   Wonder if they will be in business  in 2040? 

Happy Easter everyone!

budgy wrote:

Budgy, am I correct that you have stated that you prefer Natural latex from Latex Green, for example, over LI's latex?

If so, that is interesting. I think many of us old timers here may have been influenced by LI's excellent marketing, in convincing us that they make the best latex. My guess is that they may make the best BLENDED latex, but whether or not they make the best natural latex is up for grabs. Can you give your opinion on this here? If you already have, I apologize but I can't recall and just wanted to get it straight from the horse's mouth so to speak.

By the way, getting back to the original topic of this thread, I am still trying to get a good night's sleep and last night I hit upon a combination that may turn out to have promise. I put the 1" (fake) Venus memory foam on the very BOTTOM of my stack, next to the springs. My theory is that my Englander springs are too firm for me, and I need to soften them up. But when I add more foam on top, that gives me the "too much foam" feeling.

So yesterday I removed everything (uggghh!) and put the fake Venus on the bottom and that was my only change (2" of latex on top of that followed by my wool topper). Well, it seemed to work better than anything I tried lately.

I keep saying I won't ever use memory foam again, and that's because even if I get it to work for me, it never seems to work for more than a few nights or a couple weeks at most and then it softens up too much and doesn't work any more. I want to replace it with some very soft latex but can't afford to buy any right now.

Do you folks think the above indicates that my springs are too firm for me?* If so, what should I do to permanently soften them? Soft latex on the bottom? Soft latex on the top layer? Or what? (Can't afford to buy new springs any time soon!)

*I know: it probably mostly indicates that I may be insane. I often think no matter what I do, I'll never find a mattress or DIY configuration that wil work for me!

jimsocal wrote:

I think that springs by themselves are pretty firm.  For me it seems they seem firmer than 6" of XF latex that I had from Flobeds.  More like superfirm.   So, I need a fair amount of foam on top.   Recently, I did something like you in that I stuck a 1" piece of Sensus I have on the bottom of the stack.   So, I am using 5" total:  1" 4Lb. MF on top, 1" 24 latex, 2" of 32 latex and 1" of 5lb. MF on bottom.   Putting the Sensus above the 32 and below everything else feels pretty good too.  A bit softer than the current.   I think it sleeps slightly warmer that way, since the Sensus seems to trap heat more than any of the other pieces I have.  That is why I am not willing to use it on the top of the stack.

I am sure you would say this is too foamy.  But, I prefer that over the too firm feel (hard on hips sidesleeping) of less foam.  I guess I have no strong need to feeel the springs.   I just like whatever feels comfortably cushiony enough without  feeling of sinking in too far or causing back pain.   I have less pain issues than you, so I have a wider variety of firmness that I can accept.

I probably would like to try to take out 1" of the memory foam and put 1" of softer (maybe around 18-20?) latex somewhere in the stack.   Not sure I want to spend the money on that just yet.   Not sure exactly what firmness either.

I think you might also benefit from 1" of soft latex.   You would be able to try at different places in the stack to fine tune your feel.  Possilby your 1" piece of softer (synthetic?) latex is not the best either?