I was reading about FBM latex toppers that have irregular spaced holes.  Then when I received my latex from Overstock some of mine had irregular holes.   Then I saw a picture of foamsource (I think) and it showed some irregular spaced holes. How can that be if they use a waffle maker type machine that has the holes spaced properly?  Just curious, wondering how that happens.  I don't think it makes a difference on comfort, but wondered anyway.  Could it be Dunlop only does that because they process it differently?  I don't believe Talalay process does irregular holes form what I have seen.

I see what you mean.  I got samples of 28 ILD and 32 ILD of Talalay Blend, and the 32 ILD had larger holes.  I thought that was very odd.  But on the other hand I have a LI zoned pillow that has larger holes in the middle and smaller on the edges (if I remember correctly).  Then I have another latex pillow with larger holes and it is rated as softer, and is.  I think it is as you said many variables.

Isn't it basically ran by machines (computers) and the molds should have the exact amount of liquid (rubber blend or whatever) so there wouldn't be flaws like the 2"x6" holes I had from not filling it fully?  I can see when they take it out of the mold it could rip or stay on the mold, but I could see it just plain didn't get completely filled up (the mold).

Very complex process like the natural talalay they rate average 24-28 as medium (as the Foam Sweet Foam topper poster ordered).  Not sure why they can't make it more precise on the naturals like they do the blended.  So many variables and so many ways to try to comprehend this latex.

Still trying to wrap my head around why they place the pins in odd arrangements for some latex.  I am thinking they do this for the natural latex or dunlop latex.  From what I have seen the blended talalay has perfect holes from one side to the other.

for a zoned topper the amount of void area is how they essentially make it softer or firm in one area of the same sheet of rubber.  how they make these is the same as any other sheet of latex but it would be cut afterwards in whatever pattern they want to use.  Personally I have always thought "zoned"  toppers and zoned coil systems is about the biggest gimmick around, but thats another topic for another thread lol.  Basically how they make soft, medium or firm rubber is almost really trial and error, if their mould is a 6" depth they will always make the rubber in 6" depths and then cut it afterwards, so they will be making 6" cores in all sorts of ILD's, which is essentially determined primarily by the amount of liquid that goes into the mould before it is vacuum sealed.  The vacuum 'pushes' the liquid to fill the whole mould because of pressure differences, so less liquid will be a lower density, lower ILD end product. 

Part of the reason you will see such a large ILD difference with some manufacturers in their natural rubber is that because the natural Talalay is processed in the US by Latex International and the rubber is sourced from North Africa, this stuff sits around for a while, the waiting time before processing will effect how much ammonia needs to be used to stabilize the mixture and ultimately how much vulcanizing agents need to be added to the product, and no matter how well you wash latex afterwards some of this is left in the product, it changes the consistency and ultimately will effect the ILD ratings even though they fill the mould the exact same amount each time.  There will be slight variances in the synthetic blend as well but not as noticeable because there is less natural polymer content.  If natural latex is processed very soon after harvesting these consistency issues are far less glaring. 

Leo3 wrote:
I too used to think that Dunlop had a certain "look" to the way the mold was formed, but someone told me that is not true, that sometimes Dunlop looks like Talalay.
Can you speak to this, Budgy? My guess would be that the Dunlop "process" and Talalay "process" could be done on various molds that may not look the same from one manufacturer to another, even though the process would be the same. True? (And I'm just guessing because I've only ever seen one piece of latex that I know was Dunlop.)

the 'shiny' and smooth bits are really just from where the rubber would have been in direct contact with the mould, making all the cell walls at that point very uniform.  the 'dull' rough bits are really just from where it has been cut.  I think it would be pretty hard to tell for sure whether you are looking at dunlop or talalay latex by looking. and yeah there are definitely different pin arrangements being used sometimes even in the same factory for the same process. 

Ok, here are a bunch of different photos.  These are also pictures of the 3 slabs I weighed in the other thread. The first one here is a 2" piece of firm natural Dunlop it is symettrical on the reverse side.



This next photo is of a 4" thick medium piece:



This next photo is the exact same piece of rubber but on the reverse side. 



Finally we got a our 2" soft piece Side A:



and side B of the same piece, note you can clearly see in this image that the holes do not go all the way through. (same thing with the 4 inch piece but cant really see it in the photo)

Why do the photos all have a piece of gauze over them? It is hard to really tell much do to the gauze.

they do it for a few reasons. 

#1, is actually something you have noticed with your own customizable latex mattress, latex tends to cling to itself , and this is not a good thing because it interferes with the rubber cores flexing freely inside the mattress, this ensures a low friction surface between the pieces and proper movement of the cores. 

#2, related to the first reason is to protect the rubber cores from being damaged by friction over time.

#3, because the oils in our skin can damage latex over time if it is handled frequently, this provides some minimal protection from this.

What company is actually doing this? I have never see this or heard about this before.

All of my latex toppers from O-stock had angelhair or gauze covering.  Otherwise I don't think you could have packaged it in the plastic bag.  I believe they have to use a machine to fold and roll it and insert in the bag.  That is why I don't believe a human being repackaged and returned.  Anyway I took the gauge off I want it to stick to the mattress and not move around.

I can see the spacing of the holes being closer, but they aren't as irregular as some of mine.  Some day I will have to take pictures.  I will have to rearrange again soon.  I have it too soft now and I have it 5 1/2" thick over a spring mattress.

eagle2 wrote:
in this case the company that makes these cores (they do not source them from anyone else) is GreenSleep.  this is actually the worlds most expensive all latex mattress.