Hello,
I'm new to this forum but have been researching latex mattresses for the past month. To make a long story short, I decided to buy my new mattress from a very reliable small mattress mfg in the Boston area. After long tests in the store, I chose their "medium firm" fully talalay laxex mattress and foundation. WRONG! That mattress has a 6 inch medium firm core and a 2 inch medium top layer. At 270 lbs I was too heavy for it and found I was bottoming out and feeling the foundation under it when sleeping. I asked the store for an exchange and just received my new "firm" latex mattress. This mattress has a 6 inch bottom layer with a "40" ILD and a 2 inch top layer of "32" ILD talalay latex. I don't bottom out anymore, but it is SO firm I'm not sure I will ever get used to it.

I feel like Goldilocks and the Three Bears---one's too soft and one's too firm! I'm now thinking about getting a top layer or pad in a softer latex to add to my NEW bed....grrrrrr. What would you suggest for the firmness level? Also, how thick? I've looked at Flobeds, Sleeplikeabear, and Foam Sweet Foam toppers and they all are similar in price but seem to have different priced covers and firmness gradings. I now wish I had bought the entire bed with layers online.

Mark

Hey there mark,

It's hard to know what firmness to suggest without knowing what kind of latex you bought.  Where is their latex sourced? Is it LI Talatech latex?  If so, I am similar to you in weight, and I have a Flobeds mattess with three, 3" layers plus a 2" soft topper.  The three layers were firm over xfirm over xfirm.  The bed is set up with layers of latex on each side of the bed, and each side had the same configuration.

After awhile I unzipped the cover and reconfigured it to firm/firm/xfirm on one side, and xfirm/xfirm/xfirm on the other side.  The idea was that I would take the firm/firm/xfirm side because I wanted a soft feel.  But it felt too soft, I could feel myself sinking into the mattress.  So I moved over to the xfirm/xfirm/xfirm side (remember, the soft topper is on top of all these layers)

This surprised me because I wanted a soft feel, but ended up feeling most comfortable on the side that has all xfirm layers (with the soft topper on top).

The xfirm layers are marked 36 ILD and the firm is marked 32 ILD.  These are marked on a label right on the layers.

I suspect that at your weight, you are going to need that firm foundation with a soft layer on top for cushioning.

The reason I asked where your latex is sourced is because I understand that latex made by different manufactureres can have a different feel and can affix different definitions of firmness for various ILDs.

If it's LI Talatech, I'd recommend 9" of 36 ILD and another 2 inches of 28-32 ILD.

Is there any way you can return the bed?  I originally bought my bed from a reliable small mattress mfg firm here in California.  They had a no return policy, but when I didn't like the mattress, they ultimately allowed me to return it, as any reputable mattress company should do.

If there's any way to return it, I'd go with Flobeds.  At least with Flobeds you have 90 days to return/exchange layers to your heart's content until you "get it right."

Kimberly, thanks for your ideas! Yes, it is the talatech LI latex from Latex International. The local company I bought from is one of their original and premier dealers listed on the LI website. I'm sure I could return the bed if I pushed it, but don't really see the need at this point. I already have 6 inches of extra firm 40 ILD base and 2 inches of 32 ILD (firm or medium) topper. They also offer a real quality foundation and nice cotton and joma wool cover. I think a final softer top layer will make this bed perfect. It will just cost me a little more in the end than if I bought online I guess.

Mark

Mark: There is a great deal that I do not know about latex. Like you I did a lot of research before I finally made a decision to purchase a 100% botanically grown latex mattress from FlowBeds. I have been very happy with my purchase.

But one thing that I had heard about 100% natural botanically grown latex, that is proving true. It seems to me that it does tend to soften up a bit over time. One thing you have to be careful about is the terminology utilized for latex. Natural latex may mean that it has some or no botanically grown latex. Synthetic latex can be called natural as well. There has been a great deal of discussion over the months that I have been researching this issue regarding synthetic versus 100% natural botanically grown latex. For instance Latex International makes a product called Talatek (SP) that is 70% synthetic and 30% natural botanically grown latex. There are many who claim, including Latex International, that the blended latex is a superior product to 100% botanically grown latex.

I indicate the foregoing just to show how confusing this latex business can become. Whether or not the blended latex, or the synthetic latex, gets softer over time, I do not know. But the point I would like to make, regarding your size and weight, and the ILD of the latex your purchasing, is that it is probably a good idea to purchase latex that is more firm than you think you are going to want eventually. I know that has been my case with my FlowBeds. I have tried the softer material and have rejected it as being too soft. You can read my thread "Just bought a new FlowBeds" for all the pertinent details. But Monday I am sending back to FlowBeds a soft layer and a medium layer of latex. I have found that at 6' 2" and 210 pounds, that the firmer latex feels better to me now.

By the way, prior to buying my Flobed latex mattress, my back would be screaming in pain all through the night.  Well my back is still bad, but at night when I'm sleeping on the xfirm/xfirm/xfirm is about the only time I do *not* have pain now.  Go figure.

You may be right, you might get away with a topper.  But 40 ILD sounds awfully firm to me, as my 36 ILD layers are pretty firm.  Can you soften it up just a tad down to the 36?

As regards the 100% botanical vs. the blended Talatech Talalay, I don't actually think one is superior to the other.  I'd honestly be surprised if there's any difference in feel or durability beteween the two.  I have heard that the blended is more durable (Eagle has the 100% botanical, I have the blended Talatech) and that's one reason I just went that way, but I no longer believe that either blended or 100% botanical is superior to the other.

I will reserve judgment on what is "superior" between 100% botanically grown latex, and blended latex.

First of all "superior" is a subjective term as applied to us human beings. We all tend to rate things differently. But it would sure be nice if someone could perform a truly scientific study between the two types of latex (blended and 100% botanically grown) based upon some criteria that actually made sense.

Until that is done, I think each one of us will just have to make a decision for ourselves.

But I am thoroughly convinced, in my own mind, that latex that is at least derived from a blend of synthetic and 100% natural botanically grown latex, is a better product. And it seems to me from my reading, that Latex International seems to make a superior grade of latex.

Mostly people buy 100% synthetic latex because it is cheaper. One can certainly understand this given the high cost of the kinds of beds that Kimberly and I have purchased. I paid close to $3000 for my bed. This thought has gone through my mind many times. For instance. I need a new garage door. I am sure I can purchase a very good one for around $1000. Then I think that the money that I spent for my bed would buy three of these garage doors..... well you can imagine, it does give me pause.

In any event, I spent the money, and at this point in time at least, I am not sorry.

I don't really care if it's 100% natural or a blend. All I want is something comfortable and durable to spend 1/3 of my life on! Eagle, thanks for your thoughts. I've read most of your other posts from the last few weeks also and have enjoyed reading about your experiences. As far as cost, I was able to get a slight "discount" and lowered the cost of my mattress and foundation to just under $2000. which is still a couple of garage doors! (Eagle, I replaced my garage door last year so i'm okay!) BUT, my wife is starting to make faces when I talk about spending another $400. for an added layer on top. Oh well.... In the meantime I am experimenting with a memory foam topper I had on my old bed and it seems to make a world of difference.

Hi Mark!
I need to toss my 2 cents in here...

We recently purchased our latex bed from Savvy Rest who offer both 100% natural Dunlop and 100% natural Talalay processed latex.

We chose Dunlop processed latex because we knew we needed to go firmer than most people due to my hubby's back issues. And in speaking to one of the top latex distributors in the US who has access to both talalay and dunlop, we found that he sleeps on dunlop for his bad back. That confimed all the research I had previously done, so we put our order in. Not with him, but with Savvy Rest for other reasons you can read in the Savvy Rest thread.

We are delighted so far - it's been just about one month. We went with a split king and his side is Firm/Med/Med - and he's finding that firm enough at present. He's 5' 11" and 170 lbs. My side is F/M/S and a difference can be felt between the 2 sides.

Our bed is very supportive and firm, yet have just a slight bit of cushion "give".. The dunlop comes from Coco Latex in sw India. Our dunlop is amost flawless. (go to the Savvy Rest thread and you'll see all my posts there. This has been quite a journey, but glad I did all my research & I feel we made correct decision as we really needed firm...dunlop provides this...)

With your body specs, I would a. recommend going dunlop and b. go with Firm/Firm/Med.

There is no return with Savvy Rest, but you can swap out layers as much as you need to, for a period of 90 days. You can even switch over to Talalay (but you won't, I promise) once you feel the dunlop. (talalay costs a bit more).  Any exchanging you do will be free for those 90 days, but you will have to pay for shipping. Depending on how you set up your bed, that can get expensive. (a split king or queen will cost less as you would be returning a twin-size layer...something to keep in mind. And I can promise you that you won't feel the split.

All exchanged layers with Savvy are shredded, so you will only get new, unused layers.  That is not the case with other dealers - be sure to find out what their policy on this is before you buy, if previously used latex bothers you at all.

I wish you all the best in your quest! 

I would add, just be sure you try *both* Talalay and Dunlop if you are looking for a switch.  After a lot of hunting around, I was able to find a store that had *both* Dunlop and Talalay processed latex mattresses that I could try out, and I absolutely hated the Dunlop from the minute I laid on it.  But .  . .Catlover loves it . . . so latex is an extremely personal choice.  After reading your initial thread again, I still think your layers might be a bit too firm and dropping down to 36 could be the answer.

Two nights ago I slept again on the firm/firm/xfirm (32/32/36) side and found too soft, sinking in too much.  Last night it was back to the xfirm/xfirm/xfirm (36/36/36) and it was juuust right. (remember soft convoluted topper on top of these layers)

More importantly, I do think you need an additional layer.  6" of core with a 2" topper does not seem like enough support for your weight.  I really think you need another 3" layer.  I have three, 3" layers plus the 2" topper.

Kimberly and Catlover...thanks for your thoughtful comments. Catlover, I'm glad you are liking your new bed, but I don't plan on starting over with an all new setup from a different company. At this point I don't need additional support from "dunlop" anyway. Kimberly, I think you are probably right about my 40 ILD core being a bit TOO firm but it sure provides good support! Again, I don't plan on making another swap but will find a way to make this one work for me. So far, I am finding it pretty nice with just a 2 inch memory foam topper over the 6 inch core and 2 inch top layer (32 ILD). Although still quite firm I am sleeping better each night as I get used to the new setup. Once again you are correct Kimberly that at my weight I need more than the 8 inch layers provide. As soon as the budget recovers, I may still order another 3 inch layer of latex to replace the memory foam topper. This will require another decision on what firmness to add! Right now I'm thinking 3 inches of a medium firmness ??? Kimberly, what would you suggest for the added top layer to replace the memory foam?

Mark

markbnh1 wrote:
Sorry, Mark - I thought you were looking to go with another company...I guess I misunderstood your post.  I'll have to read more slowly next time!

I hope you find the comfort you seek, but I question going softer on your core...

Good luck

Hmm, well, I take it you've decided not to switch the 40 ILD for something a little softer?  If you're going to get another 3" layer in the future, I suggest just going with a 36 ILD, then have your 32 topper on top.

Kimberly,
Ummm.....I can't move my "32 topper". The mattress I bought is bonded together by the maker, then covered with a very fine cotton/joma wool cover which is sewn on to form the completed mattress. It was this "finished look" that attracted me to this company in the first place. (Gardner Mattress, Salem, MA Check them out online). I'm not sure what my old memory foam is rated in ILD but so far it's not too bad for comfort level. I'm thinking maybe a 28-32 ILD 3 inch layer of latex might do the trick.

I see an interesting old post from someone with a very firm innerspring who put a soft topper over it and is happy now. Sounds like me, but luckily I don't have any back issues.

Mark,

 Sorry to hear of your latex mattress woes.I know Gardner Mattress is great to deal with so I would try talking to them and see if they could do something different with your mattress to make it softer while at the same time not losing any of the support that you require.

Latex is great to sleep on but finding the right combination can be a frustrating experience.I know from experience.

One question for you...

Did you happen to notice while in Salem if Gardner had a lot of traditional spring mattresses on display?

I was in their Rye store recently,and while there were a couple units, I wanted to try some different spring combinations before I make a decision for my next mattress.

Jeff

Jeff,
I actually am from New Hampshire and made 3 trips to the Rye store before going to Salem to place my order. (It was less money in Salem!) As far as spring mattresses, I would say they have a similar display in Salem as they have in Rye. The only difference is "lower overhead" and the ability to talk to and deal with the company owner in Salem, MA. It is a custom mattress factory and they will build just about any type mattress you want. The people are very friendly and easy to deal with. I know I should probably ask for another "comfort exchange" and they would oblige, but I have already paid 2 shipping charges on original delivery and first exchange. Plus, they only build an 8 inch matress and at my weight I am reading that I need more depth. So, I'm leaning toward keeping my "firm" latex from Gardner and adding another softer layer on top eventually. More money, but probably worth a try.

Mark,

How is everything going with your latex mattress?

I know what you mean about the prices in Salem-they are quite a bit less money when you buy factory direct.

Jeff

Jeff

Jeff,

So far I still have the very firm latex mattress from Gardner PLUS an old 2 inch memory foam topper that I added.   I'm getting used to the firmness and find myself sleeping very well lately. 

I'm still considering ordering another layer of medium latex after the holiday spending is over, but I'll see how I feel by then.   Have you done anything yet about a new mattress?

Mark in NH

Mark,

   Good to hear your are adjusting to your new mattress.I know from experience it takes some time.

I just might take a trip to the Gardner's Salem store today to see what they have in stock to "test" out.

Jeff