Help! I finally broke down and got a Talalay Nature 10" latex Bliss foam mattress at Sleepy's which I have wanted for a long time. I thought the 11" was very soft but online it shows the 11" as medium and the 10" as plush. I tried the 10" and it felt plush so thats what I went with. I am very disappointed because it's very firm. I have a bad shoulder and I cannot sleep on my side at all. Will it soften over time?  Is it worth it to buy the 3" latex  topper?  What's the point of spending so much on a mattress if you have to put a topper on it? Couldn't I have bought a  regular mattress and put a latex topper on it with the same result? Will sheets fit with the topper?  At the store they told me at first that the mattress would feel the same over time and the same as in the store, but now they say it will soften over time. I'm not sure what to think.

Thanks

The latex bliss line has a wide variety of combinations of mattress/topper which are meant to give different people of different weights and sleeping positions different choices in comfort and support. The toppers are designed to be used as part of the choice in mattress rather than an "extra" when people get it wrong.

Some of the different constructions of the latex bliss are here (not all of them). As you can see, your mattress has 2" of soft latex and then x-firm under it. 2" of soft is usually good for sleeping on your back but is not usually enough for many side sleepers. When you are in the store, unless you are specifically testing for he thickness and suitability of the top layers for side sleeping then many people would only feel the 2" of softness and think that it was softer than it was. When you brought it home though and actually spent more time laying on your side and the pressure started to build up, you would feel the x-firm layer under the 2" much more and then the matress would feel much firmer even though it is the same mattress. In general side sleeping needs a thicker layer of softness to create a pressure relieving cradle and "fill in the gaps". The X firm underneath and the core below that is meant to help keep you in alignment (help stop you from hammocking) so you don't sink down too far and put your back out of alignment while you are sleeping.

You don't mention what you weigh which also plays a large role in how deep a cradle you need to relieve pressure but in general terms a side sleeper needs about 3" of softness as a "starting point" and then perhaps a bit more depending on weight and weight distribution. Your mattress may be closer to your "perfect" mattress than it may seem to you.

There are two ways to "fix" this.

1. Exchanging for a version that has a thicker plush layer on top (this is about thickness not softness as they all use "plush"). this means that a version with either 3" or 4" may be perfect for you.

2. Adding a topper. The advantage of doing this is that the toppers are softer than the "plush" layers on top of the mattresses and some people like to sink in deeper or need greater pressure relief. If they only made a mattress with this "extra plush" in the mattress itself, the flexibility of toppers as part of the mattress construction would be lost. In your case ... since you already have 2" of plush ... it is unlikely you would need more than another 2" for your side sleeping (again depending on weight). If your comfort layers are too thick then even though it would relieve the pressure, it may let you sink down too far and put your back out of alignment. I really doubt you would need a 3" topper (it would be good on top of the pamper which only has 1" of plush).

So choice 1 is to test out a version with 3" or 4" of plush latex with no topper and specifically lay on it on your side for a long time to see how it feels over time. "Bounce" a bit with your shoulders and hips to get a sense of whether you are "going through" the plush layers and feeling the firmer latex underneath. Lay still and relaxed for quite some time (10-15 minutes) and feel what is happening with your hips and shoulders. Also pay attention (have a knowledgeable salesperson or someone you know that comes with you) and check for alignment on your side (your spine should be straight) and any other sleeping positions (back and stomach your spine should have the natural "S" curve in it). There should be no "gaps" that you can slide your hand under in any sleeping position.

Choice #2 is to test out a 2" topper on top of your model of mattress in the store in the same way.

Basically you are "custom designing" your mattress :)

Hope this helps.

Phoenix

PS: The difference between a Pamper with a 3" topper and the Nature with a 2" topper would be the 1" of X-firm that the nature would have in between your comfort layers and support layers. This x-firm layer would help prevent a heavier person from sinking down too far and being out of alignment better than the Nature. The pressure relieving ability of the Pamper with a 3" topper would be slightly better than the Nature with a 2" topper though since it would have 3" of extra soft over 1" of soft while the Nature with a 2" topper would have 2" of extra soft over 2" of soft. They would be similar but not quite the same.

Thanks Phoenix

I am 5'2 and weight 165lbs.  I did go to the store today and tried both the 2" and 3" toppers. I really liked the feeling of the 3" (very soft) but I'm sure you are right that the 2" would be better in the long run. I don't want to return if I can help it because they will charge me $300.00 and I can use that for the topper. Do I still get the benefit of the latex with the topper? Or did I waste my money? My husband thinks our pillow top is softer but I can only sleep on my side for about 1/2 hour on that without pain in my shoulder. I have always slept on a latex pillow which I love. I also purchased an adjustable base which I keep up several inches at the head,  I guess this would make a difference too.

Hi,

Sorry you have had the experience that 40% of Americans have... not liking their mattresses.  You have come to the right place to learn.

Most of us here found this website while trying to find a good nights' sleep.  I have spent 6 years,  perhaps $6000, and with trades and swaps have

owned and had in my home 23 mattresses before then giving up and trying toppers... probably 100... all three types: latex, memory foam (tempur material), and poly, in varying thicknesses and densities... on top of various mattresses.  Then I gave up and did mattress surgery, and am sleeping for the first time in 6 years.

There are thousands of posts here representing thousands of hours of research, shopping, mattress trials... etc. which I suggest you search out.

The appalling mattress industry tricks and subterfuge are documented here.   The stark reality is that until you sleep on a mattress for several days, you don't have a clue what it really sleeps like.  For me, they all felt better than what I was (not) sleeping on at home.  (Bad back, side and back sleeper...  it has taken a perfect combination of just right not too soft, not too hard etc. stack of 4 one inch toppers on my mattress springs for me to sleep).

Search my id  shovel99 for some of my history including recent reasonable success in cutting the top off a Serta firm mattress and placing a combination of latex, memory and conventional PU on top.  Search also sandman who documented his mattress surgery, and provided some of the best advice.  And jimsocal.  Their experiences in mattress surgery are saved at the top of the general forum.

Now the briefest summary:   we are all different weight and sleep on back, side, both... and have different reactions to the various bedding feels.  Some like latex.. it pushes back.  Others like memory because it conforms. Memory is hot.  Others of us use combinations.

There are several online companies that will sell you a stack of latex or memory foams "in a bag" and will change out the various slabs for some shipping fees... until you get it right.

Can you return your mattress, spend a lot of time researching here, and then proceed?  I dont' recall many posts here by people who just went out and bought a latex or memory foam mattress and were "happy."  Of course, happy customers won't likely be here.. .they will be sleeping!  The whole idea behind "building" a mattress of differing stiffnesses of latex and perhaps 1 inch of memory foam on top is that you can customize the feel to your own particular needs.  I have four one inch topper slabs on top of the "skeletal" remains... the springs from a pretty decent quality Serta that I bought on sale at Sears (Firm).  Again, find my post.  I simple could not have gotten here any other way.  All the mattresses (23, including one latex and one memory foam and combinations) all felt great in the store..and hurt at home.

If your mattress is firm... as you describe... you should be able to make it sleepable with 3-4 inches of 1 inch layers with which you can experiment.  But  yes.. it is a waste to have your expensive "mattress" ( 10 inch slab of expensive latex or part base... ) be performing the function of "springs" from my cheap mattress ($500).  But if you cannot return it and don't want so start from scratch... you can at least fix this.

Sorry I don't have more detail for you, but it's here if you look.

There are lots of helpful people here.

PS... you do need to check back, this website does not automatically update you when there are posts to the thread.  And when you find a thread, you need to click "see all" or you will miss a significant part of the dialog.

Good luck.  And if you have a "comfort exchange warranty" which is customary in the mattress crook industry rather than a straight return for cash, I suggest you scramble on searching this site in a hurry.  Even since I have started mattress surgery, just the past 4 months of my 6 year quest, I have tried different layering of perhaps six different 1 inch toppers nearly every night.. until settling in just the last couple of weeks.  So it will not be easy. NOw, if you are just like me or Sandman  or Jimsocal... from reading the background, you may  just replicate what either of us have done and be done with it.  You will find all the best cheapest sources in the links.  My "perfect" bed totals no more than $1000 before  the $184 St. Dormeir wool cover that knocks out the heat associated with the 1 inch memory foam I absolutely must have in my top layer or second layer.  Wish I got here before I spent the other $5000 on delivered mattresses and toppers.

shovel99

 

The pure latex bliss toppers are just as much "latex" as the mattress and are designed to be used as part of an overall latex mattress construction to customize a mattress to an individual. It is a "European" type of design philosophy and the toppers are an integral part of the overall latex mattress construction. In North America ... we don't tend to think of a topper as part of a mattress (we expect to get all one piece) but it is more common there and a much more flexible way to buy a mattress. Check on prices though because the toppers are less in some places than others ... for example here they are less than Sleepy's.

I am guessing that a 2" topper on top of the Nature would be more "supportive" for you than other options because of the x-firm layer and may be your best choice if your actual experience confirms this.

Phoenix

If your mattress is firm... as you describe... you should be able to make it sleepable with 3-4 inches of 1 inch layers with which you can experiment.  But  yes.. it is a waste to have your expensive "mattress" ( 10 inch slab of expensive latex or part base... ) be performing the function of "springs" from my cheap mattress ($500).  But if you cannot return it and don't want so start from scratch... you can at least fix this.

Shovel,

I have to stongly disagree with you here. An extra 3-4" of latex would give them 5-6" of soft latex and would almost certainly create alignment issues. While the Pure latex bliss may not be as inexpensive as a "design your own layer" mattress that are very common here ... they can actually offer more flexibility than most of the "standardized" layering approaches and are very well thought out in their diversity. They have already done most of the "experimenting" in other words. Returning it to "start over" with exactly the same material (PLB uses latex international Talalay and are a subsidiary of LI) and to go back to an "experimental" approach would almost certainly cost them more in money, time, and possible pain.

Phoenix

Thanks for all the info and the site with the toppers. Now I can try to get Sleepy's to match the price, if not, shipping's free I'll just have to wait a little longer! Thanks again for the help. 

I forgot to mention that I also wanted the Latex because of the adjustable bed which I wanted for reflux. I felt it would be better then a regular mattress on the adjustable and has a 20 year warranty. I'm good at haggling and got them down about $1000.00 from where they started for both in full size. Crazy huh?