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Leo3


Joined: May 3, 2008
Points: 827

Heat issues of latex and memory foam
Original Message   Oct 1, 2010 4:02 pm
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We all know the issues of heat from latex (rubber) and memory foam (way too hot).  But the solutions by some are adding wool toppers.  For me I tried wool toppers (2 different ones) and they may make it somewhat cooler but they made the mattress too hard and impossible for me to sleep on.  Then I tried cotton and that helps some, but still makes the mattress firmer.

So what is the solution????  I am sick of waking up every few hours and turning over to cool the overheated area.  I need to sink in some to have pressure relief for side sleeping, so I sleep even warmer because of that.

This message was modified Oct 1, 2010 by Leo3
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budgy


Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Points: 850

Re: Heat issues of latex and memory foam
Reply #21   Oct 2, 2010 7:08 pm
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Most of the above manufacturers use large layers of wool to meet flammability requirements. 

Also, I have a little prior history with Leo, she's a she btw ;)

She had tried a few different options in the wool.  I believe one was an exposed wool pad with the stiffer acrylic backing, and the other was a thin Natura puddle pad.  Personally I can see why both of these have made the mattress stiffer overall.  The challenge is that she had specific needs/wants.  She can feel most stitching done on most mattress protectors and toppers which cuts out a lot of options.  Cotton batting in general is very firm and I can see why that maybe didn't help. 

I still believe a well made product with a decent amount of stretch will not cause these issues.  The comfort plus wool toppers from Natura have more wool in them than any exposed wool pad I have seen, and although they do have some stitching, it is minimal, and they do not have the acrylic backing.  Also a St. Dormeir mattress protector is very stretchy where it is stitched. I have never heard of anyone saying they can feel the stitching on those mattress protectors. 

The other challenge is that I know she would prefer to be as chemical free as possible which means synthetic polyester fibres and poly foams are sort of a last resort kind of thing. 

Leo3


Joined: May 3, 2008
Points: 827

Re: Heat issues of latex and memory foam
Reply #22   Oct 2, 2010 7:52 pm
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Wow Budgy you have an excellent memory blush

I also tried a nice soft cotton blanket under the sheet, but found out it was too dense and caused hip pain.  The cooling factor was minimal, not as much as the wool helped.  But the bedroom is 76-78 at night, and for various reasons I can't adjust it down (cost, etc.)

I am forced to use a plush polyester blanket as it causes absolutely no hip pain and my back feels fine too.  Unfortunately the heat factor is bad.  Winter time I will be fine again.

I am now looking at wool blankets at LL Bean that someone there said she used as a mattress pad for 6 months now.  Though she doubled up a king size for her full size bed, as the blanket was thin.  Here is a link and the last review on the first page is the one I am talking about.

Sandman I couldn't find the wool mattress pad you are talking about at LLBean.

I wish I had the nerve to order the Dormeir as the cost is high and no refunds and no returns.  Since I am a special case wink I will be the one that feels the stitching lines.  Someone here swore I would love the Cuddlebed and would not feel the lines, I DID!  It slept hot anyway.

Leo3


Joined: May 3, 2008
Points: 827

Re: Heat issues of latex and memory foam
Reply #23   Oct 2, 2010 8:01 pm
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budgy wrote:

If you want to help reduce some heat build up and humidity directly underneath you, you could try to replace your cotton fitted sheet with one made of linen (flax).  Although finding good ones is not going to be cheap.  Just another tool you can have in your arsenal. 


I know for me this would be too firm.  I use cotton jersey sheets as they stretch so I can sink into the latex layer for side sleeping.  Even regular non-stretching sheets cause pain for me, absolutely no give the them.

Leo3


Joined: May 3, 2008
Points: 827

Re: Heat issues of latex and memory foam
Reply #24   Oct 2, 2010 8:18 pm
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gunman4440 wrote:

Budgy,

I don't understand why you recomend natural fibers when the gentelman said that wool and cotton did not meet his needs.  I'm sure there are other "natural" fibers he could try - but are they easily availabe to him?  Fortrel, even the higher tech qualofill or hollofill will do a fantastic job of disbursing body heat, and he can find them at the upholstrey shop in his area.

 

By the way - those latex mattress manufacturers you mentioned - do they realy just put flat fabric down on latex with no quilting on the fabric?  I worked for years with Latex International and Sleep Comp Latex and they generaly say a quilted panel on top of their latex make a dramaticly better presentation! 

 

Gunman4440


No my upholstery shop doesn't carary Fortrel,qualofill or hollifil.  They probably are chemical laden, and probably have no stretch to them.  I was also searching for stretchable terry cloth at fabric stores, and none was found.  Good quality fabrics are hard to come by for the consumer.

As for the cotton and wool the problem is density is too firm and does not stretch, or has a stiff backing, and usually comes with stitching lines on the mattress pads.   So that is why I try blankets.  This is a way that people used to cover their mattresses to protect them, or so I am told.  Mattress pads usually have polyester filled (Cuddlebed) and the pads at JCPenneys sells those.  No local stores even sell mattress pads with cotton filling.  We have a very old one that has cotton filled mattress pad, but the stitching lines bother me still.

gunman4440


Sweet Deals, Sweet Dreams! Premium Mattress Outlet

Location: Anaheim, CA
Joined: Oct 2, 2010
Points: 32

Re: Heat issues of latex and memory foam
Reply #25   Oct 2, 2010 9:29 pm
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Leo3 wrote:


No my upholstery shop doesn't carary Fortrel,qualofill or hollifil.  They probably are chemical laden, and probably have no stretch to them.  I was also searching for stretchable terry cloth at fabric stores, and none was found.  Good quality fabrics are hard to come by for the consumer.

As for the cotton and wool the problem is density is too firm and does not stretch, or has a stiff backing, and usually comes with stitching lines on the mattress pads.   So that is why I try blankets.  This is a way that people used to cover their mattresses to protect them, or so I am told.  Mattress pads usually have polyester filled (Cuddlebed) and the pads at JCPenneys sells those.  No local stores even sell mattress pads with cotton filling.  We have a very old one that has cotton filled mattress pad, but the stitching lines bother me still.


I'm not trying to be mean or testy, but try another upholstry shop.  Most "better" decorator pillows are filled with Fortrell.  It is a better version of dacron and decorators perfer the resiliance over dacron.  Dacron, Fortrell, Hollofill, and Qualofill are all monofillament strands of nylon combed into soft fluffy "batts" for use to soften the surface of upholstrey.  Dacron was the first and by far the most common version.  Fortrell is a finer fiber with a much softer feel and more resistance to packing down.  Hollofill is similar to the previous but each fiber ha a single hole running its length (like a straw).  Qualafill is very similar to Hollofill but instead has four or five holes running its legnth (again like a straw).  Both Holofill & Qualofill have an even higher resistance to packing down in large part due to the way they are formed and the holes in them!  This is great stuff.

To my knowlede the only chemicals used during manufacture with and of the above, other than the nylon & heat is water - and a very purifide water it is as they want no impurities affecting the finished product.

The fibers with the holes running the legnth, as you might imagine, are very good at dispurshing heat!  Buy the way, they use these fibers in ski clothing to make sure a skier says warm but not over warm!  If you look at skiers on the slopes at night with an infared scope they glow yellow - from the fibers dumping the extra body heat the skier simply does not need!

Any upholstry shop worth going to knows about these fibers and can always get them if they are not on hand.

 

Gunman4440

This message was modified Oct 2, 2010 by gunman4440
budgy


Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Points: 850

Re: Heat issues of latex and memory foam
Reply #26   Oct 2, 2010 10:54 pm
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Some of the companies that import or make these fibres list them as polyester...but whether something be polyester or nylon it is a synthetic fibre, which really means at the end of the day that they are both entirely made of petro chemicals.  polyester and nylon technically off gas as it is made of hydro carbons.  the other thing is simply the humidity...dispersing heat is one thing, but the main reason why people seem to sleep hot is humidity...I have never seen a synthetic fibre come close to any animal hair or wool product in terms of dealing with humidity.  dacron will absorb about 3% of its weight in moisture before it feels damp to the touch, cotton is 4~8% depending on the staple of the cotton used, linen is about 20~25%, wool and silk are around 30%.  In any event once something becomes saturated in moisture it will lock in heat...the specific heat capacity of water itself is crazy high. as for other high tech fibres I haven't seen numbers, I would imagine it would be better to be on any fibre directly rather than direct contact with any variety of foam. 

What is really making this difficult to solve for Leo is because no matter what material we would recommend...how do you get it into something that has no stitching or backing on it? and yet make it thick enough to make it nice and soft and preferably without any fibre shifting around too much.  I think if someone can think of a good solution to this than we might have a shot at helping. 

sandman


Joined: Oct 15, 2009
Points: 961

Re: Heat issues of latex and memory foam
Reply #27   Oct 2, 2010 11:52 pm
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Leo3 wrote:

 

Sandman I couldn't find the wool mattress pad you are talking about at LLBean.

I wish I had the nerve to order the Dormeir as the cost is high and no refunds and no returns.  Since I am a special case wink I will be the one that feels the stitching lines.  Someone here swore I would love the Cuddlebed and would not feel the lines, I DID!  It slept hot anyway.


You are right.  I checked the LL bean website and they no longer offer the wool filled mattress pads.  I know they use to, because I bought one of a spare bed earlier this year.  It does have box stitching though, so you probably wouldn't want anyway.  Seems to have less wool than my Natura.  Probably why it was cheaper.


 

requin


Joined: Sep 30, 2010
Points: 81

Re: Heat issues of latex and memory foam
Reply #28   Oct 3, 2010 9:18 pm
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I just want to jump in here and say that I'm like Leo on two counts-- 1 I am female. 2 I too feel stitching acutely on most mattress pads so I'm very fussy about what I can lie on.

Read this thread w/ interest while you guys battled it out about whether synthetic fibers are breathable or not, etc.  My own limited experience is that I have an ancient eggcrate PU foam pad, I don't know where it was bought but it's held up amazingly over the years, it's only maybe 2" thick..anyway, it does not cause me to heat up as badly as either memory foam or latex.  [However, another newer el-cheapo Walmart eggcrate was utter crap, hot and too firm..] Unfortunately I cut up the good PU pad for "parts" before I realized the as yet unused new one was nowhere near as good. 

Amazing how many differences there are in these things. Info i wish I did not have to know.

Leo3


Joined: May 3, 2008
Points: 827

Re: Heat issues of latex and memory foam
Reply #29   Oct 4, 2010 1:36 am
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Welcome to my club Requin.  Very frustrating isn't it?  I have bought soooo many mattress pads that I threw out. I have tried every available one at local stores.  Then ordered the cuddlebed and that may have been the worst for stitching that was bothersome.

I would feel like an utter idiot if I bought the Dormeir and that didn't work too.  I think that would totally destroy me!  How much more wasted money can I stand to lose?  I compare it to my losing battle with socks that cut off my circulation on my ankles.  Why the heck do they makes things so unbearable uncomfortable?  I don't have fat ankles.  LOL.  I have bought ever brand and kind of socks, same dang thing.

When I slept directly (with a mattress pad) on the regular mattress with the deep tufting I just hated it.   That is one thing I liked about sleep directly on the latex toppers, no lousy tufting.  But then the dreaded mattress pad as you can't sleep directly on latex.

I use to have the eggcrates of olden days too, too bad I threw them out.  They were better than the one I bought from Target, I did take that back it never even expanded.  Not to mention the toppers I got from Bed Bath & Beyond were worthless.  Don't think I returned those.  Who knows what else I have tried I am sure I forgot some.

Edit: I just remembered the expensive featherbed.  More money down the drain.

This message was modified Oct 4, 2010 by Leo3
requin


Joined: Sep 30, 2010
Points: 81

Re: Heat issues of latex and memory foam
Reply #30   Oct 4, 2010 12:17 pm
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Hi Leo, yes I completely commisserate w/ all the money down the drain.  It is maddening. I also agree about hating the lumpy tops of many mattresses...usually those w/ pillowtops. My previous Comfortaire had a top like that, which I hated and was able to unzip and take off.  (but that was only the beginning of the problems with *that* mattress).

My current new BR has a "plush" top (not really, but it's not a pillowtop), with horizontal stitches in the padding across the top. Padding is minimal maybe 1".  So that type of top doesn't bother me but the bed is too hard!! I really wanted to be able to sleep on it as is (or w/ just a mattress pad (if I could find one w/out bad seams) but so far, no go. So the latex topper is on it and of course, hot and sweaty. Then the wool Snugfleece but that matted up at pressure points and was like lying on the bumpy ground. So I turned it over and now sleep on the backside (cotton, almost like a canvas material) but it's defeating most of the softness of the latex and I wake up feeling like I was hit by a truck.

I'm probably not quite as sensitive as you are re: seams, but I'm pretty sensitive to it.  For years I had a nice Lands End mattress pad that was stitched in long vertical columns about 4" wide...minimal stitching and never a problem with that one.  That was w/ my old BR mattress..I got rid of the pad because it was starting to stretch out on the sides and I had a new one I thought would work..bad idea!  New one had terrible painful stitching and wouldn't you know the old version is no longer available. Wish I'd kept that.

You might like the cotton mattress cover made by Berkeley Ergonomics..I know I would...but it's about $250 in queen size (just for a cotton cover!!) so there's just no way..and of course, non-returnable. Very smooth and stretchy though..really nice. That is how the covers on their beds are made too...with a little wool encased.

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