It's time to buy a new mattress and I remember about 4 years ago I had stayed at a fancy hotel and really liked their mattress.

It turned out to be an Englander but the model of that one was not available and I couldn't get any info on it to compare it to the ones that were available.

My question is, has anyone here had an Englander? Should I consider one?

Thanks, that is encouraging.

My wife made a point that in the 3rd world, the mattresses tend to be just good steel coils with just enough foam on top to not feel the coils. I've slept on some very nice mattresses in the 3rd world that seem to take this approach. This seems to me more or less what Englander's approach is. Would that be accurate?

What I'm looking for is a very solid hard spring mattress that isn't too bouncy, so I can try various toppers of my own choosing on top of it.

A lot of people make that mistake. 

Coils aren't hard by design.  A manufacturer would have to stretch hard pads or layers of foam across the coil to make it feel hard.  If you are a stomach, back sleeper or have a large amount of weight in your torso then this would be a good way to start.  Side sleepers need a more conforming system to build your upholstery layer upon.

So you are saying coil spring mattresses are never firm, that any firmness they have is always due to hard foam on top of them?

But aren't some coils by nature softer than other coils? Isn't a lighter guage coil softer than a harder guage coil? And doesn't it also depend on how the coils are tied together, how much wire is used in between then, and how many coils there are?

So what I was saying was that a high guage coil mattress (such as Englander? no?) might provide a good base to provide some "give" for a side sleeper, but with a latex or latex+memory foam topper...?

I'm not clear on what you said in your post. I am probably going to go with pure foam. But IF I go with a coil spring as a base for my own system of topper(s), what is a good hard coil mattress base to start with (no topper)?

I thought that's what I wanted, too. Turns out it didn't pan out. You'll see in another post to you where I attempted to "firm" up my existing LuraFlex coils. Oh, it made the mattress rock-hard. BUT, I figured that around 4-6 inches of softer toppers would make it more "sleeper-friendly" on my hips and back. Well, after awhile something just wasn't working. I was gradually awakening with excruciating back pain. I attributed it to the combination of memory foam, latex and the super-firm mattress underneath. I can't pinpoint if it was the soft toppers or the cement base. Or if it was just simply both together.

jimsocal wrote:

A little of both. Yes, there are definitely coils that will give it a firmer or more conforming feel. I originally started out with the individually, pocketed coil (Marshall)..the type used in Simmons. My mattress guy and I came to the conclusion that this type of coil system was just TOO conforming for my back. So, replaced it with the LuraFlex open offset coil. It's somewhere in the middle; more conforming than the Bonnell coil, for instance. Of course, it also depends on the count. I kind of wish my guy had ordered a higher count for me. A 14 gauge in a LuraFlex is going to be different than a 14 gauge in a Bonnell or continuous. Those seem to be more like 12-13.

And, each mattress company will often use different gauge, type and count coils in different models.

As someone mentioned, the type of padding that is over the coils will often make it feel softer or firmer. That's why a minimal amount of padding over the same coil will make them feel firmer. Add a fluffy pillow top to that same coil system and suddenly the mattress doesn't seem so firm anymore. Is it the coil? Not necessarily.


jimsocal wrote:

So waht I am hearing is that there is not much "science" to this, it's just luck of the draw. You try the coils you have or buy and see how they feel... It's difficult to say which coil guage and count will give you the results you want...

jimsocal wrote:

Don't get me wrong.  There are coils that are firmer than others.  Most of the firmer mattresses do rely on harder layers of upholstery to add firmness.

But aren't some coils by nature softer than other coils? Yes

Isn't a lighter guage coil softer than a harder guage coil? You can generalize if they are the same design and number of coils.

 And doesn't it also depend on how the coils are tied together, how much wire is used in between then, and how many coils there are? Yes, design differences will make a coil firmer or softer.  There are many different aspects of coil design that come into play.

I'm not clear on what you said in your post. I am probably going to go with pure foam. But IF I go with a coil spring as a base for my own system of topper(s), what is a good hard coil mattress base to start with (no topper)? It is always best to buy the right mattress for your needs the first time around.  Getting one to add to at a later is like intentionally making the wrond decision the first time.

 

Englander makes a mattress line called The Lady Englander (which may now be called their 21st Century line) and it supposedly has some of the beefiest springs out there. Englander's warranty on these mattresses is 20 years. This line comes in several different models, so if you got a pretty basic one without a lot of padding, you could add a topper or two and have a bed that would (hopefully) last you a long time. I disagree that you would be intentionally making the wrong decision, as I think it's better to add your own comfort layer and be able to replace it if it wears out instead of being stuck with a sagging pillowtop and having to toss the whole mattress.

kimmcgov wrote:

Kimmcgov, what was your final selection for a sleep combination that would lead you to this statement?

We ended up with an Englander Tension Ease (pocketed coil) model that is firm/firm plush and are looking for the perfect comfort layer for it. We almost bought the Lady Englander because of the heavy duty springs, but then decided to go for a latex mattress from another store. When the latex didn’t work out, we were locked into a comfort exchange from this same store which did not carry the Lady Englander line. Since pillowtops and mattresses with a lot of padding built in (according to hundreds of online reviews and complaints) end up breaking down in a short amount of time, we decided to add our own. The salesperson told us that he has had several people do the same thing: buying a firm innerspring then customizing the top layer themselves.

It seems that if you were a heavy person, and found that latex or memory foam didn’t work for you, that the Englander might be a good bet, as the Lady Englander mattress has a coil gauge of 12.5 compared to the Simmons Beautyrest which has 15 gauge coils (lower number = heavier coil). The mattress we have has a 13.5 gauge coil and since we are lighter people I'm hoping that it's fine. The mattress is very supportive and has almost no motion transfer and is actually very comfy right now with our PU camping pads on top as a temporary solution for the cushion layer.