The saga begins. I bought the foam from Foam Factory, www.foamdistributing.com. I had seen mixed reviews on this site, but the price was right. Thank you for your help.
I ordered last monday (6-22-09), it arrived today, 7 days after the order. Based on things I saw on this forum this weekend, I weighed the boxes before opening.
Here's what I ordered, top to bottom, with my calculated estimate what the weight should be:
$145 76x80x2" Memory Foam 4.5 lb King 31.6 lb
$252 76x80x3" Memory Foam 5.5 lb King, 58 lb
$ 50 80"x76"x2.5" Lux-R egg crate, 8.1 lb. (I assume a 2.5" egg crate is 50% air, 50% foam)
$163 80"x76"x4" Lux HQ foam, 40.4 lb.
OK, great. The shipping memo said total ship weight was 142 lb, I calculated 138 lb, we're happy.
Today the foam arrived, and I weighed them. Flipping the bed upside down, I will start with the bottom layer first. My happiness drops as I go up in the foam.
Weight of the boxes, as calculated, printed on the boxes, and weighed, then calculated density from the measured weight
Layer calc wt Ship wt Actual wt Density
4" Lux-HQ: 40.4 lb 42 lb 39 lb 2.70 lb/cf OK< nominally 2.8 but I can deal.
2.5" egg crate 8.1 lb 13 lb 8 lb 1.78 lb/cf note this is the only one that was not in the box when weighed. Nominally 1.8, OK.
5.5 lb memory 58 lb 56 lb 48 lb 4.54 lb/cf So the 5.5 lb foam is really 4.5? Not what I ordered.
4.5 lb memory 31 lb 31 lb 13 lb 1.84 lb/cf NOT A TYPO! And still in the box. It felt the same weight as the egg crate but it's much bigger.
Customer support opens at 10 AM EDT tomorrow; I will be phoning. I have opened the base and egg crate, they are airing out. They are keepers. The memory foam layers are still in their boxes so I can return them easily.
Their "5.5" lb foam was 4.5 lb; their "4.5" was 1.8!! I will report how well their customer support responds.
Thanks for all the help you already gave me, this site is a wonderful resource.
The theory on the egg crate is as follows:
First, I put the order in either just before or just after I found this page, so I knew a lot less than now. A prior link I found claimed to be very similar to the Sealy Tempurpedic Celebrity with this recipe. So I bought it, on the grounds that it was a $600 experiment to duplicate a $4500 mattress, and I would cheerfully start hacking it apart if I felt the need. Given that just buying hating and returning the Sealy would cost $500 it was an easy gamble.
Second, when we tried the Celebrity in the store, it claimed about 5" of memory, and we liked it. I expect I will need some better pad on top to not sleep too hot, but my wife loved it and I liked it. So it was a good starting point, and I expect to ask for help in the next few months. They had a lower model with 2-3" that the sales lady said Oprah owns, we found it less comfortable.
Third, Sealy's diagram at the store showed the egg crate as a "cooling channel" allowing airflow through the mattress. This is supposed to help the mattress stay cool. Yeah, unforced air cooling on the far side of 5" of high density foam (the Dr refers to a physics degree, not an MD, does it show?), I don't expect a major cooling effect but the added cost was minimal and if nothing else it should let the mattress innards breathe.
Personally I've been sleeping well on the 5" of Lux-HR and the egg crate, but my wife is a side sleeper and says she bottomed out on that.
Pleasant dreams, I'll be on an air mattress for the next week and a half.
Well, we're back.
Last night was just the foam with a sheet on top; we didn't want to do more work after getting back. Temps were about 90 F so we put the air conditioner on. I can certainly see where sleeping hot could be an issue but a mere turn of the knob fixed that for the night. Today I trim the lower layers with an electric carving knife and put the Overstock topper on. It's minimal padding and should be what we need to cool of the top layers a bit. The weather breaks tomorrow, we may try it sans A/C then.
I may well find this to be too soft for me, but my better half loves it. Since she has back problems, solving her mattress issues takes priority. I've decided that I won't make a yea/nay decision for a month, at which point I may decide to change layers, maybe only changing my side. Again, the electric knife is your friend. If she has problems then I'll probably start by just pulling the 2" 4.5 top layer. If I'm the one with problems I may have to get creative. I need to remember that being allowed to be creative is not reason to invent problems...
Again, the difference between hating this and hating the purchased model from the store is: if I hate this, I'm out $660 (including the Overstock topper), I have a pile of foam, a knife, and I can order more foam. If I hate the store version I'm out $500 and I still am out $4,000 to store credit in a store where I hated their flagship product.
Upon reflection I can say I am quite happy with foamdistributing.com. From what they have told me, they are as much a hostage to MF quality as I am, only if I buy from them they will cull through their supply to get me the correct weight. If I buy a topper from Overstock and it's light then I'm out of luck. If I turn out to be unhappy with the mattress, well, they sold me what I asked for. It's my fault not theirs.
>> if I hate this, I'm out $660 (including the Overstock topper), I have a pile of foam, a knife, and I can order more foam. If I hate the store version I'm out $500 and I still am out $4,000 to store credit in a store where I hated their flagship product.
I couldn't agree more. That pretty much sums it up.
Good call giving it a month. Be sure and send us an update! I do think you may find that much MF up top might grow to be a bit uncomfortable after a week or so. I am curious to see what your wife has to say about it after the first week. My experience was similar to yours -- I was good with the LUX with a little something to soften it up. My wife really liked the memory foam at first, but after several days her back suddenly started aching and did not get better. In all fairness it was Overstock MF and I had it over a worn Sealy spring mattress that I had removed all of the foam from. You are dealing with higher quality materials though, so I hope that it works out to your satisfaction.
I may stop by Sleepy's again to test their mattress again. I swear this thing is firmer than what they offered. From things I've read, here and otherwise, the firmness and lifespan of memory foam seems to scale with density. Could the Sealy Tempurpedic foam have the same variable weight problems that I encountered and they just ignore it? Just a question, I have nothing more than a two month old memory of a store mattress to go on, and I certainly doubt they'd let me weigh it without paying for it. But how many people even know to ask what the foam should weigh? And how many of them will actually weigh their mattress? Or I could be totally off base, it wouldn't be the first time.
Anyway, it's been a week. I cannot start thinking about cutting for at least three more weeks. But here's what we think so far:
1) My wife loves it. Time will tell, but she absolutely adores it at the moment. And while she might be shy about complaining about a storebought mattress, she certainly won't hesitate to suggest changes to a DIY project. This is usually a good thing...
2) I twisted my knee in softball, and have been sleeping on my side as a result. So the extra give has been nice. As has been the "Sink in and you're in position for a while" nature of the memory foam.
3) As I said, it's not as soft as what we laid on in the store. I just asked her about that and she said "I was wondering... No this is nice that might have been too soft." So it's not just me, but it is just a couple of two month old memories. And any questions of QC with Sealy would presume that the recipe I found online that specified this foam was even remotely close to correct in the first place.
4) OK, the weather has not broken. I think this mattress requires the air conditioner about 5 degrees before the old one did. It was much hotter without the Overstock.com mattress pad. I'll reevaluate when the promised cooling actually arrives.
5) Lateral motion transfer mainly consists of the fitted sheet being tugged as someone moves. The 2x4 and 3/4" plywood frame is a rock, with ample storage spaces.
So far, we love it.
OK, we've been sleeping on it for three and a half weeks. My wife absolutely loves it. I like it, but...
Starting three weeks in, I started getting sore muscles in my back in the morning. Last night I got up at 2 AM and went into the other room with a sore lower back.
So, time to start changing things. I'll leave the base alone and assume that 5" of memory foam is just a wee bit too soft for me. So what to do? I'll be putting in an order this weekend for more foam; I'll get an assortment of layers so I can do mix and match with them. My first plan is to get a 3/8" thick layer of the Lux and cut it in half from head to foot. I'll put 3/8" of that between the MF layers on my side of the bed, and below both MF layers on her side of the bed. I'll cut the Lux on as steep an angle as I can so the transition is gradual, hopefully that will make it harder to feel the abrupt change from my side to her side.
Why Lux and not HD-36? Simple, the Lux comes in 3/8" thick sheets, the HD36 starts at half an inch. I'm thinking I want a thin layer of more firmness and less sinking.
I will get a few layers so I can mix and match as needed; they will likely get used in an upcoming foamectomy on the spring mattress in the other room (the one I retreated to last night.) FYI, I just noticed that Foam Factory sells "skins" or "crusts" that look like the outer 1" of a PU pour. The hard outermost surface is supposed to be good for putting on top of springs. I think I'll buy a sheet of that when I get around to a foamectomy on that mattress.
|Hi Dr Mike, thanks for the update. You'll have to let us know how your new layers work out. I'm probably going with the same LUX base that you have (6") from foamdistributing but using latex on top. One question I had, I am going to custom build my frame and is there anything special I need to know for LUX? Does it need to breathe? This will be for a king size.|
|What I read did not indicate that PU needed to breathe. Mine is sitting flat on a layer of 3/4" plywood.|
What was your final configuration? I am considering buying a similar configuration without the top 4.5lb memory foam topper because we like a firmer sleep. My wife and I are 200+ lbs and side sleepers. Would there be any benefit to getting 4" of the 5.5 lb foam? Any help or guidance is appreciated.
Webbiscuit - Final configuration? Don't have one yet.
My wife loves what I described above. I hate it. Since she's visiting family, I'm messing with the bed. I have a 1/2" layer of Lux foam (ILD 50) with a 2.5" layer of HD-36 eggcrate (ILD-35 for the solid foam) on top of the original Lux and egg crate, replacing the 3" 5.5 lb memory foam. But after two nights with this configuration I don't have a verdict; I loved the original for the first week. The idea with the egg crate was, the two layers add up to 3", so I can cut the memory foam and this stuff in half, and have side by side layers for that part of the bed, then put the 4.5 lb memory foam on top so there's hopefully not that sharp of a transition between the two sides. My side, her side. Plus the egg crate layer may make more air flow through the memory foam so it won't sleep so $#^% hot!
I'll write in a week or so to say if I love it or hate it.
First, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm trying things on a whim/guess. Your mileage may vary, a lot. I loved the Sealy in the store, loved the original layout for a week, then started waking up sore. My wife loves it. I'm a 275 lb back sleeper, she's a (classified, but less than me, not heavy but solid, that's safe to say right?) side sleeper with sciatica.
Second, I am a human furnace, she is a human heat sink. Seriously, after a while when one of us was tossing and turning, so we slept in separate rooms, she complained that she got the cold room. We used the probe thermometers from the kitchen to measure, and whichever of us got what room, my room was about 3 degrees warmer in the morning. I think the memory foam is bloody hot. She loves it. I think she's part reptile. But I wear shorts in winter when she's in a sweater. How hot are you?
Third, my current appraisal is similar to, but less severe than, my initial one. I feel I'm making a U shape in the bed. I may do further surgery to make it firmer in the middle. I know, this is dead opposite to what JimSoCal does. I'm not convinced I'm not imagining it. I just feel my lower back is sinking too much. We'll see how I feel in a week.
Fourth, when I just pulled either memory foam layer off the old bed my wife swore she bottomed out. Must be the side sleeper thing. Don't know how the foam will hold up to her elbows, I swear she sharpens them.
Fifth, if I'd bought the store mattress I'd have returned it in the first week, and be out a pile of money. Whereas I just spent another hundred and change, and got foam to: (a) play with new layers on this bed, (b) replace the foam on our Ikea futon, and (c) do mattress surgery on our 8 year old queen, now our second bed. I may end up hitting $900 to build a mattress and upgrade two others. Bummer.
Sixth, you are you. I am me. The only way to find out what you like is to sleep on it. For a week, plus. Seriously. Go to the store, see what you like there, and try to emulate it. Then plan on modifying it once you know what you like or hate about it. If I could do that through the local store I would. I can't so I won't. My back isn't 30 anymore, and I cannot settle for "you paid for it, sleep on it."
Think very carefully about the amount of money you want to go down the drain before buying memory foam through them. The foams smelled bad andmay have caused my parents to get muscle aches and coughing. It is possible to return but the shipping cost is already $110 or more (very expensive due to the large size of the package) for a queen size 3" foam. Additionally it is impossible to pack the foam into a box to send it back. When I read this from other people I thought that maybe they weren't careful about the foam but now I understand why it is impossible. I was very gentle and was able to pack it into a large box but after a few mintutes the foam (being in a rolled up position) cracks right inside the box. Thus I couldn't return the darn thing and lost all my money for nothing.
If you don't like to listen to my advice above and would still like to know what it was like, the foam had a nice texture like angel food cake, which is why it was so fragile and broke apart easily. The gentlest move could cause a tear in the foam. I weight the foam and it was 46 pounds. The smell was not very noticeable at first but it did give me a headache after lying on it for 20 minutes. I heard that this is common because even tempurpedic beds can cause some people to hate the smell. The firmess of the viscomax seemed to be a little bit softer than the tempur pedic brand. I don't like sleeping on a memory foam pad and neither did my parents. It felt as if the hips/butt area was not supported at all, causing lower back pain.
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