Mattress Forum

Ecosleep has several mattresses in it's line which all have latex in the top. Some have latex over acellaflex foam (a higher quality polyfoam) and 3 of the models are all latex. These are the Cassidy and Sundance (both with a 5" core and 2x2" on top with the difference being the cover) and the natural (which has a 6" core with 2" on top).

Goldes carries the natural and can probably get the other 2. They quoted me a price of $1439 in queen for all 3 but that might have been because I was referred to them by the factory as I don't live anywhere near them (just to give you a pricing reference). Another factory referral quoted me $1350 for the same thing (again in queen). In both cases he factory would have shipped it directly to me. The 9" use blended Talalay and the 8" natural uses natural Talalay.

You will find even greater choice in all latex and better prices here http://www.beloitmattress.com/ and they make their own and are factory direct. These guys impressed me when I was doing my original research and I would make a point of going there.

Another one that has all latex and good value that would have an outlet near you is http://www.verlo.com/customerservice/stores/WI

but they are more expensive (although still good value).

Another one that I didn't talk with but also has an all latex mattress and is factory direct and reasonably near you is http://www.kenmichaelsfurniture.com/

I don't know anything about their pricing so I would probably call them first.

Good latex doesn't have a really strong smell and many have called it sort of like "vanilla". It goes away quickly. I would suspect that latex with a really strong smell was either not latex or latex from a suspect supplier.

You are actually fortunate to be in Madison as there are some really great choices near you so you can actually test out mattresses instead of ordering blind.

Phoenix

PS: Added after ... while I don't know who does this and who doesn't, some outlets will use returned layers when people do a layer exchange even though they don't use "used" layers in an original purchase. I would ask this specifically of anyone you are considering buying from if it is important to your circumstances or preferences.

I suppose I am perfectly fine them being used as dog beds.  It does make me wonder how they would still be clean for someone else to sleep on.

For someone that has received the 100% natural talalay from SleepEZ, do you think a 7000 model with a firm lower and medium upper layer would be supportive enough for my kids now and when they are 16-18?  Could I sleep on this in a pinch?  Would I bottom out?  Would the kids think it was too thick?

Could I somehow add a wool/cotton pad to the mattress if it was too hard or would this not be a good idea?  Looking to save as much money as possible and still stay natural and allergy free.

 

I think in europe they may use thinner latex mattresses than in the U.S. (as does Ikea), so they must think it is okay.

If you go that route, you may want to have them put in a slightly larger case (like the 8500), so you can add a little more if necessary.

I think the 100% natural layers are slightly thicker than the blended latex layers (3" vs. 2.8"), so that might help a little.

So would you recommend the 8500 as a minimum?  We want it to last until they are essentially 18.  If the boys are like me they will be around 160 when they are 18.  Would you say firm on bottom-medium-medium would be best or soft on top for the 8500? 

I called Beloit Mattress in Beloit, WI and they sell 100% Natural Latex mattress with organic cottom and 1.8" of wool.  I asked about any other chemicals or materials added for flame retardants.  They said that they use Vissel to meet the flame requirements on the 100% Natural bed.  They said Vissel comes from a plant.  I can't find any information at all on what Vissel is.  Is it safe?  What is it?  Do other manufacturers use it and not tell us?

The nice lady at beloit mattress said the only way to make wool pass the fire tests is to have it on all sides of the mattress including the sides.  She also said you need at least 4" of it in order to pass the flame requirements.  She said this was from their own internal testing.  They do offer a mattress that has 4" of wool all around, but she said it is a premium product and costs upwards of $2000.  She said most of the cost is for the wool and quilting to keep it in place.  She went on to say that this was the only way to pass the blow torch test. 

Blow torch?  Good Lord.  What are people doing in their beds these days? 

She then went on to say latex will ignite very easily, even the natural.  She said that it can turn into a fireball pretty quickly if it is not protected by some type of flame barrier.

SO this begs the question.  Should a bed for a child/teenager, who do stupid things, have wool quilting on all exposed areas of the bed including the sides? 

Is Wool alone meeting the requirements or are the online dealers not selling "beds", but rather latex layers and a bed topper which is not technically a "bed" until it is assembled by the customer?  Are they getting around the requirements by selling this way?  I guess I am ok with this, but I want to know what is the best NATURAL, NON-CHEMICAL or non-chemical sourced fabric to use as a fire barrier for natural latex.

We should NOT have to go through all of this to find out WHAT is in bedding products.

Thanks to everyone here who has more infor that me.
 

Each mattress/foundation (if it is designed to be used with a specific one) prototype also has to be tested and any mattress cover cannot be certified unless it is part of a specific mattress design which has passed.

The trickiest part is that what is called "inherent" materials (materials or fibers that have something added before manufacture as opposed to something added after it is made) are difficult to identify. There is no requirement to label any chemicals used as the regulatory agencies believe this would serve no "useful purpose" (their own words). I have my doubts if most wool would pass this test without an inherent additive and even if it did it would certainly need to be on the sides as well as on the top (the flame is applied to the side as well). There are several outlets which advertise RV mattresses to get around this but that too has certain qualifications attached and this (selling an RV mattress with regular dimensions) is usually an indication of more "shady" outlets. A mattress that is sold for home use ... even a do it yourself ... must meet the requirements for each specific construction.

Visil is a rayon (wood fiber) material with a silica (quartz "sand") additive and barriers like this are sold by several companies. Milliken is an example. As a side note ... the bamboo fabrics that are sold as "natural" are really closer to a rayon material as they use "dissolved" bamboo fibers and then are blended with other fibers. They are not environmentally friendly at all ... even though they are quite nice.

My personal opinion is that a good visil barrier is acceptable as I personally have some doubts that wool without any additives would pass and that the additives would be "hidden" whereas the visil is not and I believe that the additives which would be used in wool are more harmful (boron for example) than the visil material. This is compounded by the fact that it is difficult to know if some manufacturers have actually submitted their mattress prototypes for testing. It is pretty much buyer beware here.

Having said all that ... I believe that in the end (although this is disputed by the "official agencies") that the materials used and the confusion surrounding compliance issues themselves cause more harm, health issues, and even fatalaties over the long term than the few hundred lives that are meant to be saved by the standard (I believe it is designed to save less than 300 lives and less than 2000 injuries per year but I didn't look up the specific numbers). They also certainly add to the expense of a mattress. The standard can be "avoided" with a doctor's prescription but this in many cases would require a "custom built" mattress. Some outlets sell mattresses that can only be purchased with a prescription.

Another example of some official agency trying to "save us from ourselves" using regulations that do more harm than the problem they were designed to fix.

Phoenix

I think for better long term use, I would go with the 8500 or higher.   Remember, they still may use it after age 18. 

They also have these discount mattresses. The bottom 6" are dunlop, which is firmer for the same ILD.  Also, the cover is just cotton (not really sure if it is a blend - you would have to ask about that) - no wool.  For that one (or even the 8500), you might want to add a washable wool filled mattress pad.

For the 8500, and a light person, I would probably go with the S/M/F that they usually recommend.  You should ask Shawn though.   In the dunlop discount one, I don't think I would even get firm at all, maybe S/M/M.

I would note that some people are allergic to latex.  I am not sure if that will be an issue for you.

The strobel link is very informative. The fire laws were tightened in the last few years even though they were already more than sufficient. Mattresses now have to withstand a wide blowtorch for more than a minute. Imagine how much chemical or other fire retardant it takes to keep a fire from starting. Not stuff I want in my mattress. Unfortunately, companies are protected by "trade secrets" and do not have to disclose what chemicals are in your mattress. The book "Toxic Bedrooms" is an eye opener.

Some companies admit to reusing the swapped layers, some don't. I guess I would ask them.

Latex has a strong odor of rubber, because it is rubber. Genetically it seems, some folks can smell it and some can't. It bothers some people and not others. For talalay, they also put some synthetic vanilla in the vats to try to cover up the smell.

From: Jeremy Mathis [jeremym@sleepez.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 11:41 AM
To: Matthew Becker
Subject: RE: Question about natural latex mattress

Matthew 

We do not use any flame retardants whatsoever in any of our latex mattress models.  Our mattress covers have eco wool, which serves as a natural fire retardant.  The wool is not treated with any spray or any other substances. 

Please let me know if you have any other questions.  You have a wonderful day!

Jeremy
SleepEZ
480-966-9282

From:Matthew Becker
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 12:36 AM
To: jeremyM@sleepez.com
Subject: Question about natural latex mattress

Hello Jeremy,

I spoke with Shawn yesterday about your natural mattress line.  I am very interested in purchasing a full size latex mattress from your company.  I just have one question that I am still a little unclear about and I hope that you can answer it for me.

We are purchasing this bed for my son who has allergies.  We want a bed that is made of 100% natural/organic components.  We also want a bed that does not have ANY added flame retardants.  Do your latex beds (latex layers or cover) have any type of added flame retardants?  If so, do you know which flame retardants and could you give me a list and where they are used?  We are under the impression that wool serves as the flame retardant material/barrier and that nothing else has been added to the bed nor has the wool (or any part of the cover) been processed or sprayed with any other substance to enhance the flame retardant properties.

If you could answer this for me I would really appreciate it!

Thank you,
Matthew Becker

I also e-mailed Flobeds to see what their response was.  They replied with a link to video of their burn test, the corresponding report, etc.  I really wish more companies would provide this information.  One thing I did notice was that in the report it lists the company that submitted the mattress for testing was Berkeley Ergonomics.  I e-mailed them back and asked them about this.  They said that they purchase their bed covers from them.  They also stated they submitted their most flammable bed to them for testing.  The video evidence really sells this for me.  Here is the e-mail string from FloBeds:

From: FloBeds [info@flobeds.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 12:52 PM
To: Matthew Becker
Subject: RE: Question about Latex mattresses