Latex mattress is too hard
Oct 21, 2011 2:38 PM
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
Points: 60
New member here ... and I'm in a conundrum.

 

Perhaps 10 years ago I bought an Englander latex foam mattress.   It's a latex slab with thin egg-crate glued to each side, and a cover.   At some point I decided I didn't like the support - felt like it was giving me a backache - so I removed the egg crate on one side, and let that be the bottom side permanently.    Was pretty happy with that for some years, but had pondered maybe removing the egg crate from the top too.

Recently, girlfriend was diagnosed with dust-mite allergy, so I decided to go ahead and trash the cover and remove the top layer of eggcrate.   So I now just have a slab of latex, about 6" thick, with a mattress cover on top.   And it's too hard - I am a side sleeper, and it's pretty uncomfortable on my hips.   I like a firm mattress, but it's just too much.   The weird thing is, when you press on the latex with your hand, it feels kind of mushy.

So I wonder what to do.   I'm thinking maybe add back some sort of topper, of higher quality than the eggcrate, perhaps 2" of latex or memory foam bought from one of the mail-order places.   But I seek advice.   Please let me know if there's add'l info I should provide, and thanks.

This message was modified Oct 23, 2011 by RustyShackleford
Re: Latex mattress is too hard
Reply #6 Oct 23, 2011 4:05 PM
Location: Yosemite area
Joined: Sep 10, 2008
Points: 249
Yeah, pushing foam with your hand doesn't tell you much.  I think that you'd want somewhere between one to two inches of a p/u foam to soften the latex.  Layering foams seems to be the best way to reach optimum feel for sleeping. 

Kait

Re: Latex mattress is too hard
Reply #7 Oct 23, 2011 6:16 PM
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
Points: 60
Kait wrote:

Yeah, pushing foam with your hand doesn't tell you much.  I think that you'd want somewhere between one to two inches of a p/u foam to soften the latex.  Layering foams seems to be the best way to reach optimum feel for sleeping. 

 

Kait


Thanks for weighing in, Kait.   If I don't mind spending a little more, do you think 1-2" of a low-ILD latex would be better than the p/u ?   If so, thoughts about Talalay vs Dupont or whatever ?

 

 

 

Re: Latex mattress is too hard
Reply #8 Oct 24, 2011 11:17 AM
Joined: Oct 18, 2011
Points: 11

My personal opinion would be to go with latex over p/u, because you were not happy with the p/u to begin with and the allergy resistance is important to you.  I would go to some stores though and try to find latex mattresses that you like, then you can see what ILD they are made from and try to match it with what you have and what you would want to buy, plus you can make sure that there is a latex bed out there you do like. 

You can read about talaway vs dunlop online.  Supposedly they have different feels, but talaway is more consistent.  Most people say dunlop is firmer than Talaway.  Talaway does come in softer ILDs than dunlop.

Re: Latex mattress is too hard
Reply #9 Oct 24, 2011 1:58 PM
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
Points: 60
lefty2026 wrote:


My personal opinion would be to go with latex over p/u, because you were not happy with the p/u to begin with and the allergy resistance is important to you.  I would go to some stores though and try to find latex mattresses that you like, then you can see what ILD they are made from and try to match it with what you have and what you would want to buy, plus you can make sure that there is a latex bed out there you do like. 

 

You can read about talaway vs dunlop online.  Supposedly they have different feels, but talaway is more consistent.  Most people say dunlop is firmer than Talaway.  Talaway does come in softer ILDs than dunlop.

I like the sound of the latex over p/u, but it seems a little silly to spend almost $600 (queen at FBM) when I already have a nice 6" slab of latex.

Last night, I laid my summer down comforter (maybe 1-2" of loft uncompressed) plus a fleece blanket over the latex, and I found it pretty comfortable.   I'm guessing that's probably equivalent to no more than 1" of a topper of some kind.   So maybe I just try 1" of a soft latex topper and I'll be happy.  Of course, if I'm right that I wasn't getting enough support when I still had the 1" eggcrate on my latex, I doubt if the same rig but with 1" latex would be much better in that regard.

If that's true, then I guess it's just saying that my 6" latex slab is simply too soft to serve as a base layer for me, and I DO need to start over as you suggest.

 

Re: Latex mattress is too hard
Reply #10 Oct 25, 2011 1:56 PM
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
Points: 60
I'm thinking the thing to do is to get a latex topper, probaby from FBM.   Leaning towards 2" ILD 20 (I'm a 170lb side sleeper) but welcome suggestions to the contrary.  If it doesn't do the job, then perhaps it can be the basis of a new creation using a firmer base.
Re: Latex mattress is too hard
Reply #11 Oct 25, 2011 11:47 PM
Joined: Oct 25, 2011
Points: 3
Hi all, i've worked in the bedding manufacturing industry for 16yrs now. If you are purchasing a latex topper to create a plusher sleeping surface, make sure it is an ECO certified (100% natural rubber) latex topper. Generally 7.5cm thick will re-invigorate an existing mattress that is too firm, while a 5cm topper will adjust the feel slightly. The thicker option is best suited for individuals that side sleep, while the 5cm is suitable for "all-rounders" (ie, ppl that sleep in all posi's- side, back stomach, semi-stomach). Your existing latex block will last up to another 20yrs if it is 100% natural latex rubber (ECO certified), however beware- if your latex does not have an outer covering it will be prone to excessive UV exposure which will accelerate the oxidisation process (natural decomposition of the outer block- yellowing/flaking), at very least cover it with a fitted mattress protector (cotton or tencel) to minimise UV.

Adding a topper is probably the only way to spark some life back into that mattress. In regards to Visco-elastic foam toppers (memory foam/ tempur etc.), beware- they are infamous as the hottest sleeping surface material in the industry, as it is a heat-sensitive foam type that restricts when in contact with the bodies natural heat, allowing for the fine contouring & slow release of the foam structure- inturn, for this material to be effective it has to have no buffer (airlayer) such as a fibre pillowtop as this neutralises the effectiveness of memory foam, & due to it's tight polymer structure, cannot breathe nor ventilate the sleeping surface to dissapate bodyheat.

Good luck in searching out a topper, keep in mind- if it is latex, make sure it is both ECO certified & LGA tested latex, that way you will get a product that is 100% natural, extremely long lasting, pin-cored for maximised ventilation, anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, dustmite free........ preferably covered in a breathable material (cotton, bamboo/cotton, tencel, ingeo)....stay away from rayon, dacron & polyester (too hot!).

Re: Latex mattress is too hard
Reply #12 Oct 26, 2011 1:03 AM
Joined: Oct 25, 2011
Points: 3
re: Talalay or Dunlop.........Dunlop latex process utilises microwave techniques to cook the water content out of the polymerised latex sap creating a 100% natural latex rubber that retains the Hevea's natural properties of being anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, & dustmite free, it is also a much longer lasting material type. To make sure your mattress has had decent 3rd party testing, look for a LGA tested logo. LGA tests are a compression/durability test conducted on bedding materials (latex, foam, springs) to determine the longeveity of the material under regular duress. This LGA quality test & the ECO certification are the basic consumer tools you need to look out for when purchasing a 100% natural latex mattress. DO NOT simply take the salesmans word on it, very few manufacturers use 100% latex in their mattress construction, instead opting to reinforce the loft/thickness with inexpensive material types like Firm Foam base layering (P/U foam), & Soft Comfort layering with low grade plush P/U foam, instead of simply using firmer or softer latex layers.

Talalay techniques utilise catalyst chemicals to convert the polymer, leaving behind trace chemicals of the catalyst components. Also talalay will incorporate anywhere from 30%-100% synthetic latex foam which is a derivitive of the petro-chemical industry. It will also have  additives such as Ultra-fresh (organic tin compound) & Healthgard (sanitised treatment) to mimick the natural properties of natural latex.

It's a minefield out there!!!! Where brandnames mean nothing & retail cost mean even less when sourcing true quality materials. Certifications & testing are the only buyers tools worth trusting, that & thorough research.

Re: Latex mattress is too hard
Reply #13 Oct 26, 2011 3:23 AM
Joined: Mar 25, 2011
Points: 30
Rusty,

I'm in a similar situation as you, but my latex mattress is new from SleepEz. 8.5 inches thick. currently on the floor as we try to figure out what foundation to get. 

I've tried various configurations of the layers using soft/med/firm, more firm, more soft, etc layers. it doesnt seem to make a difference - my lower back hurts all the time and my right shoulder has developed a very bad constant pain since sleeping on this mattress. i sleep in multiple positions - back, sides, semi-stomach.... 

the frustating thing is I sleep fine on an inexpensive firm, older innerspring Simmons at my Mom's house. no back or shoulder pain from it. i feel frustrated for spending so much money and doing so much research to end up w/a mattress that isn't very comfortable for me...

I'm also confused on what foundation - i'm getting conflicting info -  eg. needs to be on a slatted base vs. needs a solid surface, not slatted. which is it?????

the quality wood slatted foundations are expensive. so if you buy one and then have to add plywood over the slats what is the point.

 

can anyone clear this up?

 

 

 

 

Re: Latex mattress is too hard
Reply #14 Oct 26, 2011 10:35 AM
Joined: Oct 18, 2011
Points: 11
RustyShackleford wrote:

 

I like the sound of the latex over p/u, but it seems a little silly to spend almost $600 (queen at FBM) when I already have a nice 6" slab of latex.

Last night, I laid my summer down comforter (maybe 1-2" of loft uncompressed) plus a fleece blanket over the latex, and I found it pretty comfortable.   I'm guessing that's probably equivalent to no more than 1" of a topper of some kind.   So maybe I just try 1" of a soft latex topper and I'll be happy.  Of course, if I'm right that I wasn't getting enough support when I still had the 1" eggcrate on my latex, I doubt if the same rig but with 1" latex would be much better in that regard.

If that's true, then I guess it's just saying that my 6" latex slab is simply too soft to serve as a base layer for me, and I DO need to start over as you suggest.

 



Sorry, I meant I would suggest getting a latex topper rather than a regular foam topper.  I think ordering the 1 in of 20 from FBM is probably a decent bet.  You could get 2 inches if you think you need it, but if you start with one inch, you can see if you want firmer or softer and look into buying another inch - or fold the latex in half to see how 2 inches of the same would feel. 

Egg crate foam is only for adding a soft feel, it's pretty much completely unsupportive.  Even soft latex will provide some support since it pushes back, so you might like it.   

Re: Latex mattress is too hard
Reply #15 Oct 26, 2011 2:23 PM
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
Points: 60
alopex wrote:

I'm in a similar situation as you, but my latex mattress is new from SleepEz. 8.5 inches thick. currently on the floor as we try to figure out what foundation to get. 

I've tried various configurations of the layers using soft/med/firm, more firm, more soft, etc layers. it doesnt seem to make a difference - my lower back hurts all the time and my right shoulder has developed a very bad constant pain since sleeping on this mattress. i sleep in multiple positions - back, sides, semi-stomach.... 

the frustating thing is I sleep fine on an inexpensive firm, older innerspring Simmons at my Mom's house. no back or shoulder pain from it. i feel frustrated for spending so much money and doing so much research to end up w/a mattress that isn't very comfortable for me...

I'm also confused on what foundation - i'm getting conflicting info -  eg. needs to be on a slatted base vs. needs a solid surface, not slatted. which is it?????

the quality wood slatted foundations are expensive. so if you buy one and then have to add plywood over the slats what is the point.

 

can anyone clear this up?

Hmm, sounds like you might need a zoned system, with a firmer topper under your butt and something soft for your shoulders.

And I too find the most comfortable mattress is at the beach house we've rented for several years - dunno if it's expensive or cheap.   I like the foam mattress in theory - it makes a heckuva lot more sense - but can't quite get it right.

As far as a foundation, solid surface is a strict no-no (as I understand it).   The mattress needs to breath out moisture underneath or you will be in for big trouble.   I made a base of plywood and drilled a bunch of holes in it - I hope I drilled enough, I think I did, since there doesn't seem to be noticeable moisture on the bottom of the mattress.  I think slats are fine too *IF* they are supported well enough to not sag at all.

Another thing which I've always sensed, and my girlfriend conformed in her reading about allergies.   Do NOT make up your bed, instead pull the covers back and let the thing dry out during the day.

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